RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

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Flash
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Flash » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:51 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:36 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:29 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:12 pm
Absolute ridiculous! Politics only leads to tears but does everyone know when the last big BLM spike was? 2016. And now another one exactly 4 years later,what's happening in America this year? I'll say no more. I will also say SkySports actions during their reintroduction of football have been nothing short of a disgrace!
Or does it spike when real evidence of Police behaviour surfaces?
There are big issues here in the UK but not on a USA scale.
I dont really want to go into it ,politics and sport doesnt mix or rather it shouldnt be mixed (talking to you again SkySports!
If there was more representation elsewhere it wouldn't come down to the sports stars having raise the issues.

Politics and sport have always mixed so it's not going to change now.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by RagingBull » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:27 pm

wellstiger wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:12 pm
You know life was a lot easier when -

We could sing and make merry. Either songs from the charts, Hymn book or Rugby book of lewd songs.
Tell a joke over a pint - maybe have a cigarette.
Have an opinion and a discussion over a pint - at work - at a sports venue..
Chat up a member of the opposite sex..
]It was a way of laughing at ourselves and taking a poke at how stupid life is/was

Then we had all the above questioned and then removed.

And mental health issues are now on the increase. There you go I've just offended all of civilisation cause I shouldn't have an opinion.
You know you can do most of those things currently anyway right?
People still tell jokes over a pint, Cigarettes rightly been banned from inside.
People still have discussion over a pint even Friday afternoon work drinks are still a thing, the only reason people may not be able to have a drink at the sports venue is because back when life was easier people would start alcohol induced fights.
You can still chat up a member of the opposite sex without issue, the only issues you might get is in how you do it.

Mental health issues rising in my very uneducated mind can be down to more acknowledgement of them maybe.


In regards to swing low, I don't see a issue of having a discussion within English Rugby about it.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by BFG » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:41 pm

The point of BLM is to highlight prejudice against skin colour.
Of course all lives matter, but it doesn't nor should it hide the fact that racism does indeed exist.
I think that rugby does a pretty good job of being fair in this regard, where it does fail is in the lack of BAME rugby coaches in England which is possibly more a reflection of the constricted style of rugby system that mostly exists in England.
Bristol's Pat Lam is a coach that breaks the mould in England.
Bristol and Leicester are similarly impressive cities in terms of diversity but are further apart in rugby playing style which raises another interesting debate to be had about diversity in English rugby.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Scott1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:03 pm

I think people should stay away from MSM and do a bit of research into BLM and who's controlling it and what's it really about. Cant say too much obviously in case I get called one of the tin foil hat brigade or even worse a racist,which I already have by more than one from the "tolerant" left!

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by BFG » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:10 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:03 pm
I think people should stay away from MSM and do a bit of research into BLM and who's controlling it and what's it really about. Cant say too much obviously in case I get called one of the tin foil hat brigade or even worse a racist,which I already have by more than one from the "tolerant" left!
Where and how things start really don't matter to where and how they lead.
I once heard someone say "forget left or right and instead go forward" which is absolutely the way to go.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Scott1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:42 pm

Whoever said it BFG was a very wise man/woman but sadly its never gonna happen I'm afraid.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by JP14 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:56 pm

Jacko27 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:11 pm
I have to say I've never been that keen on "Swing Low". I remember when it was part of the repertoire of hymns, spirituals and bawdy songs sung in rugby clubs up and down the country on a Saturday evening but I never quite understood how it morphed into becoming England's unofficial anthem. The trouble is we don't really have an alternative. For years we, wrongly, sang God Save the Queen which is the British National Anthem, not England's. Or Jerusalem which, imo, is too mystical, too poetic, too obscurely religious to express English patriotism.
So we're back with "Swing Low". It is open to the charge of cultural appropriation (mainly white people singing an African enslaved person's song) but to me it doesn't seem to be at all disrespectful. This latter view seems to be held by former players like Ugo Monye. So the message to fans seems to be sing it if you wish but spare a thought for the song's origins.
Apparently it was first sung when Martin “Chariots” Offiah played at the Middlesex Sevens in 1987 at Twickers, but Brian Moore insists it was sung before then at HQ.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by JP14 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:02 pm

I think the forum’s debate on Israel Folau highlights its inability to discuss this kind of issue without delving into opinions that are racist and unacceptable.

Black Lives Matter is an apolitical issue, that’s all I will say.
Last edited by JP14 on Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by loretta » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:05 pm

A few posters here are getting a bit hot under the collar for a Rugby forum, take it outside boys.
I've got a bad feeling about this.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Tigerbeat » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:09 pm

The whole world is going through a difficult time dealing with Coronavirus and now BLM. All lives matter and racism is not acceptable on the forums and all users are welcome. Politics and sport do mix but generally do not have complete harmony. This is a forum to discuss rugby related matters and recognise that BLM and coronavirus are part of the discussions....lets try and keep racism and politics out of it.
Stay safe and hope we can get back to watching rugby together at Welford Road soon.
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by jgriffin » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:20 pm

Tigers fans run the gamut from outright Britain First racists through to lefty politics, royalists to republicans, from gay/lesbians to homophobes, etc. If you try to inject your opinion into this, it cannot fail to become political tinder. It should be enough to recognise it is, rightly, being discussed in an open manner.
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Tiglon » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:16 pm

I'm with Martin Offiah - they're right to raise the issue, but let's put a positive spin on the song and use it to promote BLM and togetherness, not let it became a symbol of division. Then, focus on the real problems and build a fairer and more inclusive society.

The whole idea of banning Swing Low leaves me utterly baffled. If someone could explain the logic I would be eternally grateful.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by wellstiger » Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:09 am

Times change.
The song originally was sung as a Gospel song and was introduced to the Church Hymn books around early 1800's.
It was made more popular and sung by Paul Robeson in the early 1900's - He was a renowned civil rights activist.
Like all songs they originate somewhere - Old man river another of his better known song. They may have a background that does not sit with some.Do we want to educate or just ban.
I'm sure Mr Paul Robeson would not have sung these songs if it did not sit with him.Was he trying to educate in films/musicals such as Showboat.

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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by sapajo » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:02 am

It seems to me that was is essentially being questioned is if it is wrong for a white person to sing a song written by a black person and vice versa. The right to free speech must be preserved as there is no way the singing of this song breeches any laws because if it did the police would take action and not leave it to the RFU.
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Re: RFU To Review The Use of 'Swing Low,Sweet Chariot' ; Connotations of Slavery ?

Post by Tiglon » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:28 am

sapajo wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:02 am
It seems to me that was is essentially being questioned is if it is wrong for a white person to sing a song written by a black person and vice versa. The right to free speech must be preserved as there is no way the singing of this song breeches any laws because if it did the police would take action and not leave it to the RFU.
I'd better go and tell my daughter to stop singing along to Beyonce and make sure she conforms to her own racial stereotype. That'll make the world a more inclusive and less discriminatory place...

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