The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

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APJones
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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by APJones » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:41 pm

Apparently apostrophes do not always represent a missin' letter any more.
It was a general grammatical rule when I was at school but no longer.
It's the same with Americanisms creeping in.

e.g. in our office this morning
Bloke "No problem man "
Woman replies "Yeah I'm gonna kick some ass "

Leave the poor donkeys alone, stop kicking them !
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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Eon B » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:56 pm

There are three uses of the apostrophe in British English. I won't speak for other dialects except Lallans Scots.

These are all related to the idea of elision, although the one relating it to a early possessive form, or case, is probably spurious.

a) used to indicate a glottal stop in phonic representations. eg pass the bo'le (for bottle) in Bristol and other subdialects.

b) to indicate the omission of a letter or group of letters which is omitted in speech or informal writing. eg can't for cannot or possibly though less conventionally psycho's for psychopaths.

c) indication of possession when attached to a proper noun, eg 'John's bottle', 'Dr Polygon's Psychopath'. This is commonly attributed to being derived from 'John his bottle' being elided. However this is little evidence of this process in late medieval English.

However within the chaos that is our language this matters very little and very many people who pronounce on these issues do so for reasons that are more superstitious than informed, and smack of tribalism.

It is better to speak kindly than correctly because courtesy is the best manners.

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Johnnyg » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:30 pm

Yes. It may be true but does it need saying BJ?
The truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent. In other words being correct can often be cruel, demeaning and patronising.
The reality is that some of us have better grammar than others, but that does not mean we need to point out petty errors to people whom we do not know and who do not wish to hear it.

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:36 pm

Johnnyg wrote:Yes. It may be true but does it need saying BJ?
The truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent. In other words being correct can often be cruel, demeaning and patronising.
The reality is that some of us have better grammar than others, but that does not mean we need to point out petty errors to people whom we do not know and who do not wish to hear it.
thank you, if I were writing a University thesis I wouldn't mind, but this site is essentially, a chat room, so long as the posters avoid using "txt spk" I think that's all anyone needs to demand, so unless "perfect grammar" is in the site T's & C's then frankly pointing it out is just someone trying to put someone else down

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by h's dad » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:49 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Johnnyg wrote:Yes. It may be true but does it need saying BJ?
The truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent. In other words being correct can often be cruel, demeaning and patronising.
The reality is that some of us have better grammar than others, but that does not mean we need to point out petty errors to people whom we do not know and who do not wish to hear it.
thank you, if I were writing a University thesis I wouldn't mind, but this site is essentially, a chat room, so long as the posters avoid using "txt spk" I think that's all anyone needs to demand, so unless "perfect grammar" is in the site T's & C's then frankly pointing it out is just someone trying to put someone else down
I can't help but note the double standard and hypocrisy of using and condoning poor grammar and then demanding that text speak is avoided.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:02 am

h's dad wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Johnnyg wrote:Yes. It may be true but does it need saying BJ?
The truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent. In other words being correct can often be cruel, demeaning and patronising.
The reality is that some of us have better grammar than others, but that does not mean we need to point out petty errors to people whom we do not know and who do not wish to hear it.
thank you, if I were writing a University thesis I wouldn't mind, but this site is essentially, a chat room, so long as the posters avoid using "txt spk" I think that's all anyone needs to demand, so unless "perfect grammar" is in the site T's & C's then frankly pointing it out is just someone trying to put someone else down
I can't help but note the double standard and hypocrisy of using and condoning poor grammar and then demanding that text speak is avoided.
Well I believe text speak is banned, also not everyone would understand it

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by h's dad » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:46 am

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
h's dad wrote:
I can't help but note the double standard and hypocrisy of using and condoning poor grammar and then demanding that text speak is avoided.
Well I believe text speak is banned, also not everyone would understand it
Ok, fair enough. If you could just point out where this is stated. All I can find is Bill saying it's all right. And didn't you just use it? :smt003

And not everyone can follow sentences that follow unconventional grammar and appear to have missing words.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by h's dad » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:55 am

Rizzo wrote:Come on, please can we live and let live? Even if it annoys you, any grammatical errors are allowable on the forum, it isn't against rules to make spelling or grammatical mistakes :smt001
Sorry Rizzo. I'm just glad to see some traffic on Chit Chat. It's been rather moribund of late.
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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:57 am

h's dad wrote:
Jimmy Skitz wrote:
h's dad wrote:
I can't help but note the double standard and hypocrisy of using and condoning poor grammar and then demanding that text speak is avoided.
Well I believe text speak is banned, also not everyone would understand it
Ok, fair enough. If you could just point out where this is stated. All I can find is Bill saying it's all right. And didn't you just use it? :smt003

And not everyone can follow sentences that follow unconventional grammar and appear to have missing words.
As point out above, "Psycho" is an abreviated word so there were missing letters

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Rizzo » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:13 am

Text speak isn't banned as sucgh, it's just actively discouraged and if people do use it we tend to edit the posts to show full words. I suppose text speak is like localised slang, it is only polite to explain or use words and expressions everyone will understand so everyone (whether English speaking or not) can join in.

Anyway - back to the subject matter.

My nephew is an avid football fan, plays for his local team & is a good decent lad - as are his team-mates. My daughter's boyfriend coaches football for youngsters (we have yet to introduce him to live rugby) and he says mostly the kids are great, but they see one or two of the big name football players acting up, challenging the ref, spitting and swearing etc and like most kids they try to emulate their hero. In young players this behaviour is squashed rapidly, no one seems to squash the badly behaved big names.

Having said that, bad behaviour is not confined to football as we all know. Cricket people piddling on the wicket isn't exactly the thing we'd want our kids to imitate!
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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:36 am

the football refs could go a long way to stopping all that, they have the authority to show yellow and red cards for that behaviour (not sure if spitting is included, but the bad language and aggressive behaviour is), but they simply fail to do so, they as a group, need to decide that they will take a zero tolerance view on it, it would take a month tops to stop it dead as players would get hammered by their managers and fined for costing their side.

I personally would treat diving as a professional foul and thus a straight red card instead of what ever it's categorised as currently, sadly none of them have the stones to do it.

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Rizzo » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:49 pm

What do people think about Robbie Fowler (I think?) apologising on the football Final Score for referring to two players fighting and pushing "like a pair of girls"? Apparently some people got up in arms and offended saying he was being sexist and a misogynist - and then he apologised (although the BBC claims it did not instruct him to do so) and started talking about he didn't mean to offend and he was a big fan of women's football.

Now - as a woman - I (a) did not and would not take offence at that phrase (b) don't consider it sexist or misogynistic and (c) didn't see it as any reference at all to women's football - just to the two silly players who were pushing and so on.

Is the next logical step that no one dare to use the expression "handbags" in case that's viewed as anti women or sexist or something?
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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Rizzo wrote:What do people think about Robbie Fowler (I think?) apologising on the football Final Score for referring to two players fighting and pushing "like a pair of girls"? Apparently some people got up in arms and offended saying he was being sexist and a misogynist - and then he apologised (although the BBC claims it did not instruct him to do so) and started talking about he didn't mean to offend and he was a big fan of women's football.

Now - as a woman - I (a) did not and would not take offence at that phrase (b) don't consider it sexist or misogynistic and (c) didn't see it as any reference at all to women's football - just to the two silly players who were pushing and so on.

Is the next logical step that no one dare to use the expression "handbags" in case that's viewed as anti women or sexist or something?
that is sadly more to do with the victim mentality brought over from America, people seem to look to take offence at absolutely everything they can, just look at the whole Russell Brand Jonathan Ross thing, more people complained then their show even had listeners, people were complaining just to complain, if its the BBC it's especially bad

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by BJ. » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:08 pm

The 'beautiful game' continues. Courtesy of the BBC
Whatever you do, don't argue. We might never hear from you again.

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Re: The 'Beautiful Game' strikes again

Post by BJ. » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:18 am

Or there is this example.
Whatever you do, don't argue. We might never hear from you again.

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