Independence for Scotland?

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Kinoulton
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Kinoulton » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:25 am

And of course, to drive down to see their new Euro chums, the Jocks will have to drive all the way through England just to get to a decent ferry.

Then they'll know how we feel when we drive to Italy or Spain and have to drive through (and spend money in) bl**dy France.
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!

Bill W (2)
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:29 pm

Kinoulton wrote:the Jocks will have to drive all the way through England .
Steady on Kinny. You are not suggestng we let the drive their cars on our roads for free are you?

Having granted them independance they will, of course have to set up their own DVLA (or pay a huge some of money, in sterling, to continue to use ours.) We (the UK) should take the opportunity to reduce road tax and instead charge tolls (particularly on motorways).
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Phil B » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:12 pm

Kinoulton wrote:

and have to drive through (and spend money in) bl**dy France.
Steady on, no need for that!
:yawinkle:
I could agree with you...but then we'd both be wrong.

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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by biffer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:44 pm

Purebob wrote:I haven't seen a NEARLY cogent economic argument for the independence of Scotland,
Scotland generates 9.3% of the GNP of the UK with only 8.4% of the population.

If your GNP per head is higher, it makes for a stronger economy.

biffer
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by biffer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:45 pm

Kinoulton wrote:And of course, to drive down to see their new Euro chums, the Jocks will have to drive all the way through England just to get to a decent ferry.

Then they'll know how we feel when we drive to Italy or Spain and have to drive through (and spend money in) bl**dy France.

We've got a ferry to the continent already thanks. And ours doesn't go to France :smt003

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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by biffer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:52 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:
tigerburnie wrote:It really is very complex,).
No it isn't!

Independance means:

Scotland joins the Eurozone; - not if we don't want to
And the Shengen Group; - not if we don't want to
And responsbilty for Bank of Scotland Debts; - nope, they're UK debts. We'll take our share (most of the money was actually lost by London workers - i.e. Englishmen)
Establishes its own health service, social security services, pensions, tax collection mechanisms; Jurisprudence; etc - got our own health service and jurisprudence already, and whilst we'll need to put systems in place for the others, there are already tax collection and social security operations in place - the tax office for London used to East Kilbride, not sure if that's changed. Not overly difficult
Pays for Border Control between UK and Scotland; - why would there be border control? The UK doesn't have it on its current land border
Gives up all seats in the Houses of Commons and Lords; - obviously, duh
Returns all UK Honours; - why? they're in the grant of the queen who will still be head of state, similar to Canada, Australia etc
Accepts any tarrifs (financial transaction taxes) that the UK may seek to impose; - way to contradict yourself. You've assumed that we'll be in the EU and then gone on to say you can put tariffs on another EU member's trade. Nice understanding of the legal situation there.


etc

Simple really!!

:smt026
Quite a massive ignorance of the legal situation that would surround an independent Scotland demonstrated here.

Gate
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Gate » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:21 pm

Odd that no-one's mentioned the fact that the proportion of Scots residents indicating a desire for independence has stubbornly refused to climb above 25% regardless of what the empty barrels keep saying. That's why Greasy Eck doesn't want a straight "In or Out" referendum.

Mind you, reading the racist toss in some of these posts almost makes me feel a twinge of sympathy with him.

Almost.

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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by biffer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:35 pm

Gate wrote:Odd that no-one's mentioned the fact that the proportion of Scots residents indicating a desire for independence has stubbornly refused to climb above 25% regardless of what the empty barrels keep saying. That's why Greasy Eck doesn't want a straight "In or Out" referendum.

Mind you, reading the racist toss in some of these posts almost makes me feel a twinge of sympathy with him.

Almost.
The ICM poll in the telegraph last month had 40% in favour and 43% against in a straight yes/no question in January.
The Panelbase poll in the Times last week had 37& in favour 42% opposed.

This static 'fact' is a myth put about by the unionist parties. In the eighties they said that support was stuck at 20%. Around the turn of the millenium they said support was stuck at 25%. Five years ago they said it was stuck at 30%. Now they're saying it's stuck at 35%.

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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:52 pm

OK right!

An independant Scotland will not be part of the Eurozone, or the EEC;

It will have its own currency;

And its own language;

And trade only with itself;

It will in fact be "on its own"!!


FINE!!
Still keeping the faith!

Gate
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Gate » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:59 pm

biffer wrote: The ICM poll in the telegraph last month had 40% in favour and 43% against in a straight yes/no question in January.
The Panelbase poll in the Times last week had 37& in favour 42% opposed.

Is that the weaselly one where they ask about the Scottish Government entering into negotiations for independence?

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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by biffer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:34 pm

Gate wrote:
biffer wrote: The ICM poll in the telegraph last month had 40% in favour and 43% against in a straight yes/no question in January.
The Panelbase poll in the Times last week had 37& in favour 42% opposed.

Is that the weaselly one where they ask about the Scottish Government entering into negotiations for independence?
Nope, they were asked the proposed question.

Which is

"Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?"
Last edited by biffer on Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

biffer
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by biffer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:38 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:OK right!

An independant Scotland will not be part of the Eurozone, or the EEC;

It will have its own currency;

And its own language;

And trade only with itself;

It will in fact be "on its own"!!


FINE!!
The EEC doesn't exist anymore.

An independEnt Scotland will be part of the EU. It doesn't have to be part of the Euro - the idea that it has is another myth put about by the unionists.

It can have its own currency, or in fact use Sterling; as Sterling is a fully convertible currency due to the reforms of the last twenty years to enable freer trading in the city of London, there's nothing to stop this happening, whether Westminster likes it or not; at least not without changing the way that Sterling is traded, which would hamper the City of London in its ability to trade internationally and let's face it neither the Tories nor Labour are going to do that.

It'll trade with who it trades with currently, there's no reason why it wouldn't.

And as for language, how does anyone plan to stop us speaking English if we want to? Really bizarre point.

Bill W (2)
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:52 pm

biffer wrote:[An independEnt Scotland will be part of the EU. It doesn't have to be part of the Euro - the idea that it has is another myth put about by the unionists.

It can have its own currency, or in fact use Sterling; as Sterling is a fully convertible currency due to the reforms of the last twenty years to enable freer trading in the city of London, there's nothing to stop this happening, whether Westminster likes it or not; at least not without changing the way that Sterling is traded, which would hamper the City of London in its ability to trade internationally and let's face it neither the Tories nor Labour are going to do that.

It'll trade with who it trades with currently, there's no reason why it wouldn't.

And as for language, how does anyone plan to stop us speaking English if we want to? Really bizarre point.
As a new entrant to the EU Scotland must be part of the Eurozone and part of the Schengen Froup.

It would not be able to use sterling (only the Bank of England can issue sterling) and as observed above would have, as part of the EU and Eurozone to use the Euro and be subserviant to the Eurpean Central Bank. It could issue bonds - but as all the rating agencies have pointed out these would be at "junk" status. Bank of Scotland bonds - whoops 82% of that is owned by the English - you can of course buy it back!!

The barriers to trade would change with independence. None of the guarrantees currently available as part of the UK would be available.

But fine. Go independent. ASAP!!
Still keeping the faith!

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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:55 pm

biffer wrote:Nope, they were asked the proposed question.

Which is

"Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?"
Mr. Salmond clearly failed GCSE Maths (or Statistics) or whatever that is in Scotland.

It is called a loaded question.
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by biffer » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:04 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:
biffer wrote:[An independEnt Scotland will be part of the EU. It doesn't have to be part of the Euro - the idea that it has is another myth put about by the unionists.

It can have its own currency, or in fact use Sterling; as Sterling is a fully convertible currency due to the reforms of the last twenty years to enable freer trading in the city of London, there's nothing to stop this happening, whether Westminster likes it or not; at least not without changing the way that Sterling is traded, which would hamper the City of London in its ability to trade internationally and let's face it neither the Tories nor Labour are going to do that.

It'll trade with who it trades with currently, there's no reason why it wouldn't.

And as for language, how does anyone plan to stop us speaking English if we want to? Really bizarre point.
As a new entrant to the EU Scotland must be part of the Eurozone and part of the Schengen Froup.

It would not be able to use sterling (only the Bank of England can issue sterling) and as observed above would have, as part of the EU and Eurozone to use the Euro and be subserviant to the Eurpean Central Bank. It could issue bonds - but as all the rating agencies have pointed out these would be at "junk" status. Bank of Scotland bonds - whoops 82% of that is owned by the English - you can of course buy it back!!

The barriers to trade would change with independence. None of the guarrantees currently available as part of the UK would be available.

But fine. Go independent. ASAP!!
If you believe the Daily Mail, those things are true. In the real world, they're not.

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