Independence for Scotland?

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Gate
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Gate » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:28 pm

Burnie is the man! Most excellent summing-up of just why Salmond should be smoked. That greasy little chancer would make me a foreigner in my own country. I detest him.

Kinoulton
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Kinoulton » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:07 am

I think Scotland will get independence.

If we need some sparsely populated rocks with oil rights, we've still got The Falklands anyway.
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Bill W (2)
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:48 pm

Let them have their independace.

TOTAL INDEPENDANCE.

They will go bust in six months!!
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tigerburnie
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by tigerburnie » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:17 pm

It really is very complex,you can't just say no, or for that matter just say yes either.Not only will the repercusions be felt north of Hadrians Wall if it all goes belly up,as was evident by the banking fiasco.
The trouble is you just can't trust politicians to be either right or honest,but you can be sure they will do all they can to further their own aganda.
Leaving a legacy if you will,Thatcher killed our manufacturing industry,Blair seemed to want to just be another Napolean and Salmond seems to be following the current trend of being a celebrity(I suspect Loius Walsh must be on his list of advisors as hes got the same charisma as Jedward).
There's a bit of a party atmosphere around Bath this afternoon - but you wouldn't get that at Leicester if we finished ninth." Richard Cockerill 7/5/16

Bill W (2)
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:09 pm

tigerburnie wrote:It really is very complex,).
No it isn't!

Independance means:

Scotland joins the Eurozone;
And the Shengen Group;
And responsbilty for Bank of Scotland Debts;
Establishes its own health service, social security services, pensions, tax collection mechanisms; Jurisprudence; etc
Pays for Border Control between UK and Scotland;
Gives up all seats in the Houses of Commons and Lords;
Returns all UK Honours;
Accepts any tarrifs (financial transaction taxes) that the UK may seek to impose;


etc

Simple really!!

:smt026
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DickyP
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by DickyP » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:32 am

I have just one question in this argument which leads to others - why has nobody checked the Act of Union?

This clearly and unequivocally states that England and Scotland become one country in perpetuity. Eg, the present argument is not simply Scotland leaving a pact or alliance but breaking up a country - my country. Why as a Briton living in Great Britain don't I also get a vote in a referendum about part of my country being stolen away from me? I'd probably vote for them to be independent but that's bye-the-bye.

I also think Alex salmon is missing a trick if he was serious - if he got England involved in the referendum he'd be sure to win!

However, his agenda is not actually independence but more local power with even bigger subsidies from the English. Of course it's also high on the Labour agenda to keep Scotland (and indeed Wales) in the Union as this a source of a substantial element of their voting power.
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Kinoulton
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Kinoulton » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:27 am

Once there is a real momentum to break up a state, as there was in Yugoslavia, Czeckoslovakia and the Soviet Union, then all the constitutions you can legislate won't stop it.

It depends upon the "controlling" country to give in quietly. English people have no desire generally to hang on to Scotand, Wales or Northern Ireland and wouldn't have the stomach to fight the departure of any of those places.

Indeed, it was very galling for your average Johnny Englander to have his towns blown up by the IRA, it's soldiers shot and killed by both sides, and thenhave to listen to ignorant Americans funding this death claiming that we should "give Ireland back to the Irish". The truth being that we sent people to patrol the god-forsaken streets of Belfast initially to protect Catholics, then Protestants and then who knows what.

If a majority in NI had favoured a united Ireland then it would have saved a lot of death and strife, however, the majority didn't, so we stood by them. The same goes for the Falklands, Scotland and Gibraltar. As long as you want to stay in, you're welcome to have everything the UK has to offer. If you want to go, just go. No one's stopping you.
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Purebob » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:04 am

I haven't seen a NEARLY cogent economic argument for the independence of Scotland, including PRIOR to 2008. Salmond lionising the "Celtic Tiger" and strutting his fat oily stuff.

Now the Celtic Tiger is more like an arthritic ferret, Salmond has literally ZERO examples for success. His first act would be to go begging to Europe, and they're hardly in a position to respond are they ?

I think that this is actually about the giant chip that all the home nations carry on their shoulders about England, just made into poor politics. I think Salmond and his ilk genuinely think Grecian-style poverty would be more tolerable than being governed from Westminster.

I have no antipathy towards Scotland or the Scots, and if they really want to be independent I say "let 'em" , with the absolute caveat that not a single penny of the devolution cost will be met by English taxpayers, nor will ever come from the English treasure in their regard again.

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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by DickyP » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:47 pm

Purebob wrote:... Now the Celtic Tiger is more like an arthritic ferret ...
I like it! Very succinct and expressive. :smt023
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."

Bill W (2)
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:54 pm

Right! Let's get it over and done with.

****** a referendum. Let us have a swift Act of Parliament granting them full Independance effective April 1 2012.
Still keeping the faith!

DickyP
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by DickyP » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:17 pm

Bill W (2) wrote:Right! Let's get it over and done with.

****** a referendum. Let us have a swift Act of Parliament granting them full Independance effective April 1 2012.
... and a new Hadrian's Wall? Barbed wire? Machine gun towers? :smt067 :smt071
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."

Bill W (2)
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:32 pm

DickyP wrote:
Bill W (2) wrote:Right! Let's get it over and done with.

****** a referendum. Let us have a swift Act of Parliament granting them full Independance effective April 1 2012.
... and a new Hadrian's Wall? Barbed wire? Machine gun towers? :smt067 :smt071
Most definitely!! "No mans land" 400 meters wide with land mines!!

:smt027 :smt027 :smt027
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Kinoulton
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Kinoulton » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:38 pm

As along as the opposing forces aren't expected to come out at midnight New Year's Eve and sing Auld Lang's firkin wotsit. I hate that bl**dy dirge.
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!

Bill W (2)
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by Bill W (2) » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:18 pm

Auld Langs firkin wotsit will be declared unpatriotic.

And the verse of the National Anthem with Marshall Wade in will be restored to its rightful place!!

:smt027 :smt027 :smt027
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CJ
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Re: Independence for Scotland?

Post by CJ » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:25 pm

To Bill W's list of what independence means, could we not add 'use their own language'? They've got one - use it! So the millions who don't actually speak it would have to learn it.
and they should of course have their own TV and radio organisation which can broadcast in this language.

on a different tack, what will be the letters for Scottish web use? .co.sc?

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