XFactor: Would Marley, Dylan or Hendrix make it through?

[Kinoulton]

I know this is an old topic but the continuing drive towards mediocrity by both the panel and the voting TV audience is making a dull show out of what could be very good TV.

Think about Lisa Minnelli singing "Am I Losing My Mind" with such realism you thought she was. Hendrix pouring lighter fuel over his guitar and lighting it, live on TV. John Entwhistle earnestly playing his bass riff as though nothing was happening whilst just to his left Pete Townsend was ramming his guitar through his speakers and Keith Moon was trying to destroy his drums which were blowing up with explosives in any case.

These days people just pick up a mike and sing some R&B dirge and get millions of votes for it. I think we no longer have a younger generation.

[Rizzo]

No, they probably wouldn't - if only because there's a generation (and some older people) who have become accustomed to hearing vocals that have been auto-tuned. I was having a discussion with a Canadian mate who is lead singer in a reasonably successful band over there, he said a lot of people don't even know about auto-tune - in the song "Believe" by Cher they used it for effect and deliberately made it sound computerised, nowadays it's used as a matter of course so the vocalist "hits the note in the middle" - listen to Sinatra, Minnelli etc and they don't do that - but the emotion and verve, the life in their vocals hits you head on.

My thought has always been - if you put this person on stage with no mic, just a piano or acoustic guitar - would they be able to perform like that? Mostly the answer is no.

I recall seeing a US band (Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes) at Leicester O2 a year or two back. there was a power cut, the support act were still on. But then Southside came onstage, with some of the horn section and the guitarist with an acoustic, th keyboard player was given a tambourine and they did 45 minutes in semi darkness with only emergency exit lights. That's musicianship.

[Kinoulton]

Well that's another thing that annoys me about the wannabees on XFactor.

They all say that it means everything to them, and they want it so much, yet only a handful have actually picked up an instrument, learnt to play it, and toured the various pubs and clubs in their area.

Instead they stand infront of their bedroom mirror and warble like a hyena who's just found a carcass.

[fleabane]

The indicator of a real musician or singer is that they can perform on their own and hold an audience, sitting in a high stool under a bare light bulb.

Saw Bowie do it at the Country Club in Hampstead in 1970. Unbelievable!

(Then he was joined by Mick Ronson on guitar and Rick Wakeman on piano, with all the lights in the room on. Even Better!).

The glitz, glam, lighting, makeup and clothes are intended to obscure the frailties of performers on "talent" shows, and not to enhance the performance (as in a Muse, Pink Floyd way).

These shows provide the prospect of fame for 15 minutes for those who can't achieve it through hard work, sacrifice and talent.

[Eon]

Nor did those artists appear on "opportunity knocks, the Royal Variety Show" or Des O'Connor Tonight"; the equivalent chimp TV of the time.

The BBC has always produced appalling trash, and missed the point of genuinely popular music.

It's probably in the charter.

[Kinoulton]

It does amaze me that technically one quarter of XFactor is dedicated to producing yet another girl/boy singing group.

We have more than enough, and most of them aren't selling any records.

[sam16111986]

The glitz, glam, lighting, makeup and clothes are intended to obscure the frailties of performers on "talent" shows, and not to enhance the performance (as in a Muse, Pink Floyd way).

I'm not sure ITV would condone letting the acts take LSD and coming up with the trippy live performance lights, staging etc that Pink Floyd made up back in the day. Nor would they appreciate the Floyd mentality to disagreements over the lighting, the band members used to send a roadie out with an air rifle in the early days when some venues refused to turn out all the lights for fear of it concealing unsocialable activities.

I have to say each week the acts left in the competition seem duller. The girlfriend was annoyed when I refused to watch any more with her on Saturday after the annoying judge Tulisa (?) layed into one of the acts for performing the Aretha Franklin number 'Think' because she had not heard of it.

[cornish tigress]

These programmes are never going to produce anything edgy and interesting though, because most people like mainstream and mainstream tends to be dull as dishwater. You kind of get what you deserve with these programmes don't you think? I don't think I have ever really appreciated 'pop'. It will always leave me cold. Formulaic nonsense. Give me System of a Down and insane chaos any day. Take a risk.

[Kinoulton]

I think where these XFactor wannabes are lead astray as they are forced into some kind of jelly mould by their mentors, is that people like Bruce Springsteen, INXS, Brian Adams, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, certainly appealed to a mainstream audience but did so with individuality.

These contestants have the individuality squeezed out of them or are voted off.

[sam16111986]

I think a large problem is that a lot of the acts are so young they don't have a clearly defined individuality. The people listed here as acts to look up to have lived and things to discuss through their music. What has a 17 year old fresh out of school got to say? Well according to the :censored: factor not alot, not that they are allowed to a)dress in what they like and b) perform any of their own music.

I'd be interested if there was a perform your own song week. I dislike the whole glorified karaoke nonsense, where's the excitement in performing a song you've been singing solidly for the last week.

Oh and the :censored: factors idea of 'rock week' which my loving gf always thinks I'll be interested in is nearly always terrible pop songs with a guitar in the mix somewhere.

[Kinoulton]

"Rock Week" this year was as big a farce as last year. Just a string of dull ballads and amazingly it was only the much maligned Jedward who did it justice in 2010.

I would disagree with you, Sam, in so far as I think that people like Tracey Chapman, Tanita Tikaram, Rory Gallagher and David McWilliams came out with some stunning ideas at a very young age.

However, I think they genuinely felt some kind of soulful music in their blood, rather than just wanting to be famous for 15 minutes.

[cornish tigress]

Tanita went to my school! I didn't know anyone knew who she was anymore. She was brilliant.

[Kinoulton]

I absolutely loved Tanita Tikaram, which was odd because I normally go for guitar crashing rock. I went to see her live in Nottingham.

If you lined her up against 99 tall blonde skinny supermodels, she would definitely come out as the most beautiful woman out of the 100.

[sam16111986]

Code: Select all

I would disagree with you, Sam, in so far as I think that people like Tracey Chapman, Tanita Tikaram, Rory Gallagher and David McWilliams came out with some stunning ideas at a very young age.

I did say 'according to the X-Factor not a lot'. The bit about living a little was a suggestion for them if they really are that dull. Those people with natural charisma and stage presence will never need something like the X-Factor as they will get the chance to perform purely under their own steam. You either have that talent and purpose that will get you noticed or you don't.

[Kinoulton]

That's what annoys me about XFactor. People that appeared on old style "entry level" programmes like New Faces, Opportunity Knocks, The Comedians etc had at least hauled their sorry a***s around pubs and clubs, satisfied some difficult audiences, and earned their right to get in front of a big TV audience and have their one shot at fame.

The current mob do nothing but two minutes of karaoke, the worst one gets voted off, and the rest come back yet again.

Are any of them capable of enriching the world of music with Voodoo Chile, Fast Car, or A Town Called Malice?

No.