At first, FIFA's ruling will annoy all Daily Mail readers and Colonel Bloodknock, but you have to put yourself in their position.
If England were allowed the poppy, then some Austrian nutcase would call for the swastika, which they would have to ban.
The the People's Popular Fornt of Troubledland, would demand their emplem and cause fierce opposition from the Troubledland Liberation Movement.
And it really isn't FIFAs role to get involved in this.
Banning the Poppy
Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster
Re: Banning the Poppy
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!
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BJ.
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Re: Banning the Poppy
On the East Midlands bulletin during this morning's Breakfast on BBC1, there was an article about Penny Wheeler from Belper and her fight with scleroderma. Whilst I don't know Penny that well, I've known her husband Nick for 40+ years as I was at school with his older brother and we all used to play together on the same 'rec. The news item shows both of them at home and they are wearing poppies. I'm sure this is something the BBC made them do as I'm certain Nick wouldn't wear a poppy around the house.Rizzo wrote:... I do find the BBC and other media outlets putting poppies on everyone from the third week of October a bit of a "look at me wearing a poppy, how good am I?" kind of irritation.
I assume this article will be in the main EMT programme tonight.
Whatever you do, don't argue. We might never hear from you again.
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tonbridgetiger
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Re: Banning the Poppy
Sorry B.J., and Kin, I disagree and so do many other people in this country about what you say that it is right for FIFA to decree whether we should have a poppy on our shirt. Since when anyway have FIFA ever cared much about anything other then their own publicity and lining their pockets? They are hardly the bastions of morality, they are a bunch of greedy, corrupt parasites as shown by the world cup selection process and other such recent instances.
But anway, I and others I have spoken to, find it extremely disgusting that they are trying to stop us showing respect for the people that died int the various wars, for the freedom they fought for, for which the FIFA parasites are now benefitting from. Are they going to stop every organisation in the world from putting a symbol or their flag on their shirt now, which could be interpreted as a political symbol by some? Why should we allow others to dicate what we do in this country, they wouldn't like it if we did it to them!
Oh, and FIFA do allow poppies on the training shirts and armbands, which goes to show how hypocritical their match day banning is!!
No, D.C., and others are quite right to stand up to FIFA and tell them what for! I have in a very strong letter to them, and I think many others should too. It is time the FA pulled out of FIFA but they are too weak willed to do so.
But anway, I and others I have spoken to, find it extremely disgusting that they are trying to stop us showing respect for the people that died int the various wars, for the freedom they fought for, for which the FIFA parasites are now benefitting from. Are they going to stop every organisation in the world from putting a symbol or their flag on their shirt now, which could be interpreted as a political symbol by some? Why should we allow others to dicate what we do in this country, they wouldn't like it if we did it to them!
Oh, and FIFA do allow poppies on the training shirts and armbands, which goes to show how hypocritical their match day banning is!!
No, D.C., and others are quite right to stand up to FIFA and tell them what for! I have in a very strong letter to them, and I think many others should too. It is time the FA pulled out of FIFA but they are too weak willed to do so.
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BJ.
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Re: Banning the Poppy
I view this whole uproar about poppies on football kit as a continuation of what I like to call the 'Diana Syndrome'. After the Blessed Diana wrapped herself round a lump of concrete in Paris, it was almost seen as being unpatriotic if you weren't going about in a public show of grief. This was exacerbated by the popular press and the future war criminal known as Tony Blair. To this day, I still want to reach for a sick bag every time I hear the term The Peoples' Princess.
The upshot is a large percentage of the British general public has swung from being quite reserved in its display of patriotism to over-the-top displays of emotive outbursts at the drop of a hat. Suddenly, anybody in a military uniform is a hero. Don't get me wrong - I will never knock the British Armed Forces but, going by my experiences during my RAF career, I would think the vast majority of personnel don’t look upon themselves as heroes: they’re just doing their jobs.
I see no reason why the England football team cannot line up before the match wearing track suit tops with poppies attached, have their minute of silence, listen to the dirge commonly known as the national anthem of the United Kingdom, remove their track suit tops to show their shirts without poppies on them and then get down to what they are meant to be doing that night, i.e. kicking a bag of wind around for 90 minutes.
If the players feel so strongly about wanting to wear a poppy at that time of the day, then let them forego playing for their country (along with the appearance fee, of course) and sit in the stand where they can watch the match whilst wearing their poppy with pride.
The upshot is a large percentage of the British general public has swung from being quite reserved in its display of patriotism to over-the-top displays of emotive outbursts at the drop of a hat. Suddenly, anybody in a military uniform is a hero. Don't get me wrong - I will never knock the British Armed Forces but, going by my experiences during my RAF career, I would think the vast majority of personnel don’t look upon themselves as heroes: they’re just doing their jobs.
I see no reason why the England football team cannot line up before the match wearing track suit tops with poppies attached, have their minute of silence, listen to the dirge commonly known as the national anthem of the United Kingdom, remove their track suit tops to show their shirts without poppies on them and then get down to what they are meant to be doing that night, i.e. kicking a bag of wind around for 90 minutes.
If the players feel so strongly about wanting to wear a poppy at that time of the day, then let them forego playing for their country (along with the appearance fee, of course) and sit in the stand where they can watch the match whilst wearing their poppy with pride.
Whatever you do, don't argue. We might never hear from you again.
Re: Banning the Poppy
I think FIFA are wrong to ban the poppy on matchday shirts. It is not political or religious so on what grounds can they ban it?
Re: Banning the Poppy
It's far subtler than the simple imposition of silly rules for the sake of it (RU can't claim to be exempt from this stupidity - hence fining France for upsetting the poor little Kiwis about their country dance).
- FIFA et al have a glorious opportunity to get petty revenge on the people who exposed their corruption.
- the leading lights in imposing the ban don't understand the concept of wearing something with pride as they have none and there's no money in it for them. Therefore they think there must be a political or economic reason.
Perhaps both teams should play in exactly the same strip to avoid upsetting any national sensitivities?
When you consider there is also a long, albeit not universal, tradition in the USA of wearing poppies on Veterans Day which includes remembering those who fought against the British!
- FIFA et al have a glorious opportunity to get petty revenge on the people who exposed their corruption.
- the leading lights in imposing the ban don't understand the concept of wearing something with pride as they have none and there's no money in it for them. Therefore they think there must be a political or economic reason.
Perhaps both teams should play in exactly the same strip to avoid upsetting any national sensitivities?
When you consider there is also a long, albeit not universal, tradition in the USA of wearing poppies on Veterans Day which includes remembering those who fought against the British!
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
Re: Banning the Poppy
Perhaps the answer is to redesign the three lions so that each one was wearing a poppy. How would FIFA deal with that one?
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!
Re: Banning the Poppy
FIFA have changed their mind. Each England shirt will display a poppy on a blank armband. Germany has backed the move.
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!
Re: Banning the Poppy
As today's bit of trivia did you know that strictly speaking England don't wear 3 lions, but 3 leopards?Kinoulton wrote:Perhaps the answer is to redesign the three lions so that each one was wearing a poppy. How would FIFA deal with that one?
The leopard was England's traditional heraldic device - it's not really a leopard, as such, but the heraldic name for a "lion passant regardant". Eg, on all fours and looking to the front.
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
Re: Banning the Poppy
Actually I had been told that on QI but had totally forgotten.
The problem that this brings up is there is already a hugely popular facebook campaign which is kind of vibrating the racial tension within this country as it carries the banner (sic) IF THE POPPY OFFENDS YOU PLEASE FELL FREE TO PACK YOUR BAGS AND F*** OFF.
Now I have not read of a single incident where a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, black man, Chinese or any other member of any ethinc group has moaned about the poppy, in fact many of them are wearing one.
So white middle class Europeans have this debate amongst themselves and then ignorant racists decide it's the fault of immigrants. It's the same argument as the ridiculos "Winterval" thing. No blacks or Muslims were involved in that piece of crud, it was hand wringing white liberals.
The problem that this brings up is there is already a hugely popular facebook campaign which is kind of vibrating the racial tension within this country as it carries the banner (sic) IF THE POPPY OFFENDS YOU PLEASE FELL FREE TO PACK YOUR BAGS AND F*** OFF.
Now I have not read of a single incident where a Muslim, Jew, Hindu, black man, Chinese or any other member of any ethinc group has moaned about the poppy, in fact many of them are wearing one.
So white middle class Europeans have this debate amongst themselves and then ignorant racists decide it's the fault of immigrants. It's the same argument as the ridiculos "Winterval" thing. No blacks or Muslims were involved in that piece of crud, it was hand wringing white liberals.
Kicks and scrums and ruck and roll.....Is all my brain and body need!
Re: Banning the Poppy
Agreed, I too haven't had any hint of anyone claiming offence at the wearing of them.
In fact, although I wear mine with pride, I would defend the right of anyone not to wear one, even if I do resent little bureaucrats making up spurious reasons for ordering me not to.
In fact, although I wear mine with pride, I would defend the right of anyone not to wear one, even if I do resent little bureaucrats making up spurious reasons for ordering me not to.
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
Re: Banning the Poppy
Having just watched the news and seen groups throughout the country stopping to remember it gave me pause.
There is probably better reason now than ever to ensure that the day is remembered as so few people actually remember 'for real' being at war. The need does change over time. Even the relations and friends of the casualties in Afghanistan, Iraq, N Ireland are lost in a general population on whom the whole experience is alien: in 1918 and 1945 everybody knew many who'd died or were injured.
At school in the 1960s many, if not most, of my teachers had served in the second war and they as a group were very ambivalent about the whole concept of Remembrance. My House master, who as a young naval lieutenant had taken the surrender of the Japanese in Saigon and had a very distinguished war record objected strongly to the whole thing. My physic master who's won the MC in the desert just said one day a year was better than nothing. My Art master just said that his biggest complaint was that he'd finished the war as a young man and the rest of his life had been an ant-climax.
My father would tell tales of being in London in the 1920s when traffic including buses would stop and you could hear a pin drop in Oxford Street.
Times change.
There is probably better reason now than ever to ensure that the day is remembered as so few people actually remember 'for real' being at war. The need does change over time. Even the relations and friends of the casualties in Afghanistan, Iraq, N Ireland are lost in a general population on whom the whole experience is alien: in 1918 and 1945 everybody knew many who'd died or were injured.
At school in the 1960s many, if not most, of my teachers had served in the second war and they as a group were very ambivalent about the whole concept of Remembrance. My House master, who as a young naval lieutenant had taken the surrender of the Japanese in Saigon and had a very distinguished war record objected strongly to the whole thing. My physic master who's won the MC in the desert just said one day a year was better than nothing. My Art master just said that his biggest complaint was that he'd finished the war as a young man and the rest of his life had been an ant-climax.
My father would tell tales of being in London in the 1920s when traffic including buses would stop and you could hear a pin drop in Oxford Street.
Times change.
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
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Rizzo
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Re: Banning the Poppy
DickyP - they stopped the traffic in Inverness for the 2 minute silence, the first time since the second world war.
http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News ... 112011.htm
In our small office at work, we were tannoyed ten minutes before, and then the switchboard turned off & the front door shut for 2 minutes. The second call the receptionist took after that had a man complaining he'd been trying "for ages" to get through, and when she apologised and said we had been observing the two minutes silence, the man just huffed and harrumphed and said well I wanted to get through...
http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News ... 112011.htm
In our small office at work, we were tannoyed ten minutes before, and then the switchboard turned off & the front door shut for 2 minutes. The second call the receptionist took after that had a man complaining he'd been trying "for ages" to get through, and when she apologised and said we had been observing the two minutes silence, the man just huffed and harrumphed and said well I wanted to get through...
Don't waste your time away thinking about yesterday's blues
Demelza - another Mother
Demelza - another Mother
Re: Banning the Poppy
Totally inconsequential query about poppy wearing and certainly no form of criticism or complaint.
Does anyone know why, or when, the practice of ladies wearing their poppies on the right fell into abeyance? I noticed in particular this year when it appears to have become the norm for everyone to wear them on the left.
I had noticed it, on occasion, in previous years but this year it has been an obvious sea-change in behaviour.
My own suspicion is that it the 'fault' of TV where the assistants who bolt a poppy onto all and sundry who come on various programmes didn't know the difference and the practice has stuck.
Does anyone know why, or when, the practice of ladies wearing their poppies on the right fell into abeyance? I noticed in particular this year when it appears to have become the norm for everyone to wear them on the left.
I had noticed it, on occasion, in previous years but this year it has been an obvious sea-change in behaviour.
My own suspicion is that it the 'fault' of TV where the assistants who bolt a poppy onto all and sundry who come on various programmes didn't know the difference and the practice has stuck.
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
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Rizzo
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- Location: Somewhere down the crazy river
Re: Banning the Poppy
I've always worn my poppy on the left lapel, the inference being it is "over the heart" - never heard that ladies should wear theirs on the right?
I also learned this week that the green leaf bit should really be moved to point to the 11 in a clock position - for obvious reasons.
Also an aside, my daughter bought crystal embellished poppy brooches from The British Legion Poppy Shop - I wore mine on Friday and today, with the paper poppy stem pushed into the pin so both were clearly visible.
Debretts etiquette for poppy wearing is here
http://www.debretts.com/about-debrett%2 ... uette.aspx
BBC etiquette advice says " Where to pin your poppy - left or right. Some people say left, as it's worn over the heart. It is also where military medals are worn. Others say only the Queen and Royal Family are allowed to wear a poppy on the right, which isn't true. Then there is the school of thought that says men should wear theirs on the left and women on the right, as is the traditional custom with a badge or brooch. The Royal British Legion spokesman says there is no right or wrong side "other than to wear it with pride"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8333733.stm
EDIT - DickyP I just found this
http://blogs.projectbritain.com/2009/11 ... tions.html
"Some people prefer to wear a poppy on the left over their hearts. However, the general rules is to wear Left for men because that's where medals go and Right for women because that's where a widow would wear her husband's medals."
Personally I think it's better to wear one one whichever side you feel and consider right, than not to wear one at all - especially for fear of being wrong. In my googling of poppy etiquette I came across a Canadian Legion discussion and article where a poppy wearer in Canada had been told using a Canada flag pin to affix the poppy was actually illegal (incorrect) but the Canada Legion representative had said that using any other form of flag or logo to affix a poppy was incorrect and not respectful.
I also learned this week that the green leaf bit should really be moved to point to the 11 in a clock position - for obvious reasons.
Also an aside, my daughter bought crystal embellished poppy brooches from The British Legion Poppy Shop - I wore mine on Friday and today, with the paper poppy stem pushed into the pin so both were clearly visible.
Debretts etiquette for poppy wearing is here
http://www.debretts.com/about-debrett%2 ... uette.aspx
BBC etiquette advice says " Where to pin your poppy - left or right. Some people say left, as it's worn over the heart. It is also where military medals are worn. Others say only the Queen and Royal Family are allowed to wear a poppy on the right, which isn't true. Then there is the school of thought that says men should wear theirs on the left and women on the right, as is the traditional custom with a badge or brooch. The Royal British Legion spokesman says there is no right or wrong side "other than to wear it with pride"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8333733.stm
EDIT - DickyP I just found this
http://blogs.projectbritain.com/2009/11 ... tions.html
"Some people prefer to wear a poppy on the left over their hearts. However, the general rules is to wear Left for men because that's where medals go and Right for women because that's where a widow would wear her husband's medals."
Personally I think it's better to wear one one whichever side you feel and consider right, than not to wear one at all - especially for fear of being wrong. In my googling of poppy etiquette I came across a Canadian Legion discussion and article where a poppy wearer in Canada had been told using a Canada flag pin to affix the poppy was actually illegal (incorrect) but the Canada Legion representative had said that using any other form of flag or logo to affix a poppy was incorrect and not respectful.
Don't waste your time away thinking about yesterday's blues
Demelza - another Mother
Demelza - another Mother