UK Economy

[Kinoulton]

At the extremes you have the communist ideal of controlling what goes on, or the Thatcherite ideal of letting everyone fight for jobs and money and we are all a jolly lot more competitive.

My controversial take is:
We should not close "uneconomic" coal mines just because we can buy coal cheaper from Russia. It means that high-earning tax paying miners with money to spend become impoverished people demanding benefits.

We should award all ship building and aircraft building contracts to British companies. Similar reasons to above, but also, come the next world war, if we can't build our own ships and aircraft, we're stuffed.

Energy should be supplied by UK companies. Relying on Germany, France, Russia et al is madness. Come the next meltdown, energy will be vital, and no one will give a stuff that we're good at financial services and running supermarkets. It won't help us.

It's protectionist, it flies in the face of all current economic wisdom, but I reckon I'm right.

[fleabane]

[tigerburnie]

At the extremes you have the communist ideal of controlling what goes on, or the Thatcherite ideal of letting everyone fight for jobs and money and we are all a jolly lot more competitive.

My controversial take is:
We should not close "uneconomic" coal mines just because we can buy coal cheaper from Russia. It means that high-earning tax paying miners with money to spend become impoverished people demanding benefits.

We should award all ship building and aircraft building contracts to British companies. Similar reasons to above, but also, come the next world war, if we can't build our own ships and aircraft, we're stuffed.

Energy should be supplied by UK companies. Relying on Germany, France, Russia et al is madness. Come the next meltdown, energy will be vital, and no one will give a stuff that we're good at financial services and running supermarkets. It won't help us.

It's protectionist, it flies in the face of all current economic wisdom, but I reckon I'm right.

I agree,but(there always is one)society really is broken.Thatchers legacy is far more than smashing the miners to try and bring about a collapse of the opposition and go for a one party state.The mercenary greed is now part of our culture.
I'd go for a revolution myself,plenty of fodder to put up against the wall,everyone to do with reality tv for starters,closely followed with anyone to do with the dross on the telly thats soap/celebrity based,oh and sky sport would be free to everyone...............

[Kinoulton]

Thatchers deive for a free market, giving us choice and the benefits of people having to fight for our custom has backfired massively.

I no longer have one bus company with a duty to serve my village. I have 20 who can't be bothered.

I don't have one British Rail, I have a host of companies who run trains when it suits them.

I don't have four money rich TV Channels with a duty to license fee payers and advertisers to provide quality programming, I have 170 channels who have no money and pump out silly dross hosted by unpaid wannabes with no charisma.

[tig1]

What has Thatcher got to do with anything ? Its over 20 years since she left office. We had just come off the back of 13 years of liberal socialism and look where that has left the country. Yet still the left wingers go on about Thatcher 20 years ago. Ignoring that in 13 years of government they turned the country into a complete :censored: mess.

Thatcher did some good things and some not so good. But for sure the truest statement she ever made was ... 'Socialism is when you run out of somebody elses money'

And she was spot on.

[BJ.]

Well said tig1.

Blaming Margaret Thatcher for everything is the standard get-out used by the so-called Socialists. It still amazes me that Labour MPs could have the bare-faced nerve to claim the coalition's economic policies were the reasons for the current climate within days of them taking office.

Tony and Gordon spent 13 years maxing out the UK's credit card on vitally important things like Iraq and Afghanistan and then legging it when the statement dropped on the doormat.

"What? Pay the bill? Nothing to do with me mate, speak to the new occupants."

[adamv6]

Socialism is when you run out of somebody elses money

Great quote.

Lets be honest though, the whole monetary system is screwed up. Take mortgages for instance. A bank values a property, lends you money that it doesn't have to buy that property, then you pay interest on that money that the bank doesn't have to buy the property from them. In the end, you have paid twice the interest than the value of the property.

Kinoulton is right though, we ALL need to become more self sufficient. Our reliance on others is normally our downfall.

[Rizzo]

Whether politics or something else, some people in this country want to point a finger of blame at someone or something else, and not take responsibility for themselves and their own errors, lives, problems etc.

Today, whilst supermarket shopping, a man came up and started trying to sell me a credit card associated with said shop. I refused & said I don't use credit cards, we have 1 card for large purchases like holidays or Christmas, and I don't want another. He seemed bemused by the fact that we don't live on credit. Then I went into a high street clothes shop to return a t-shirt, and they tried to sell me a store card - assuring me I could spend up to £1,000 on credit straight away. Everywhere you go you are offered credit on more and more things, and some people don't grasp that whatever you borrow, you have to repay eventually. That applies to countries as well.

[Kinoulton]

I'm not blaming Thatcher per se. What I'm saying is that Thtacher set a tone which subsequent socialists have adopted rather than reject. Hence the mess.

We are still driven by home-ownership and big mortgages which no longer works. Despite the worthless efforts of the EU, there is no job security because our economy is driven entirely by 6 months results and not by the long term viability of the enterprise.

Hence useless .Com companies were stupidly over valued by the stock market, whilst reliable companies like Boots were forced to shed staff to keep some fund holders happy.

No one lives where they work anymore, so the Greens constantly have palpitations as we all drive in oppositie directions up and down the M42, M69, M1, M6 because it's not worth moving house for your job because you'll be made redundant within 18 months anyway.

This laisser faire attitude to economy may make us "competitive" (although clearly not when it comes to mining, shipbuilding, car making, textiles or anything else that is useful) but it has screwed up our society.

We need to get a grip of our country and stop ebbing and flowing at the mercy of bankers and short-term investors.

[tig1]

I think we have reached the point where it doesnt really matter which side of the political fence people set on. The UK government has reached a debt level that is hasnt got any possibility to pay back. The annual defecit is around 170 billion and growing, and the underlying debt is probably around 4 trillion when all off balance sheet items and unfunded liabilities are taken into account.

So the UK will keep printing money to keep the banks appearing to be solvent and hoping to devalue sterling and inflate away the debt. But there will be no growth so the money will just be poured down the drain capitilising the banks and eventually the UK will default like every other western economy.

There is not a politician in the land who has the guts to deal with it.

[Old Hob]

Socialism is when you run out of somebody elses money

Great quote.

But capitalism is stealing someone else's money in the first place.

An older quote (I'm feeling all historical today)from the time of the enclosures:
"They hang the man and flog the woman
who steals a goose from the common;
But the greater thief goes loose,
who steals the common from the goose"

And the same principle still applies today

[tig1]

I think you raise a really good point there Old Hob.

Capitalist or Socialist doesnt matter, if Governments fail to regulate the economy properly people will take advantage. Its that simple.

The UK is in a mess now simply because the last 13 years Mr Brown failed to regulate the Capitalists (ie. the banks) and failed to regulate the Socialists
(ie. Welfare and public sector). He handed unlimited money to them all without any suitable limits, regulation or controls. In the process turning a budget surplus in 1998 to a 150 billion defecit in 2010 and adding 100's billions to the core debt.

It is not his beliefs as a socialist that i objected to, it was his complete and utter negligent failure to fiscally govern and regulate the economy.

Ok, i need to go calm down....