1day ban? what do you think?

Rizzo · Post by **Rizzo** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:42 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 241650.stm

I know there are some horse loving people on here. what's your opinion on this?

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:52 pm

seems a bit bizarre and pointless to me. but i don't really know much about horse racing, so i don't really suppose i'm in much of a position to say a huge amount.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:55 pm

I think the article got it right when it said that this well publicised incident will adversely affect his career. And rightly so.

A lot of the jockeys' money comes from freelance work when they are given mounts by various trainers.

Obviously a lot of trainers will think twice about engaging him now when there are loads of other jockeys of similar ability clamouring for rides.

By the way, in case anyone's too worried, it is unlikely that the horse was really hurt. But it was a thoroughly obnoxious thing to do.

Cornish Tiger · Post by **Cornish Tiger** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:33 pm

Being someone who has been thrown off and stomped on quite a lot by our equine friends - I must admit I am not appalled by his action. Horses don't ask to be ridden around race tracks - and I don't agree with exploiting animals in this way at all. It makes me laugh hearing all these people saying how horrible and insulting headbutting the horse was - when everyone's quite happy for riders to whip the @**& out of them all the way round. Doubt the horse notices the subtle difference.

DCat · Post by **DCat** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:34 pm

The thing is that it was perceived as an angry response. I think it sets a bad example - it's fine to head butt animals. I think not.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:01 am

There's a lot of rules these days about the use of the whip by professional jockeys.

Most good jockeys just hold it where the horse can see it (horses have near 360 vision) and swish it occassionally without actually touching the horse.

The trouble comes at amateur events such as pony clubs, gymkanas, novice show jumps, point-to-point meetings etc, where people use the whip excessively because they've either bought the wrong horse, or they haven't schooled it properly, or they're sh*t riders.

Such people are thrown off the premises at any decent event.

Cornish Tiger · Post by **Cornish Tiger** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:29 am

1. Not too sure that's 100% true, Kin. Every race I've watched at the end they are belting them
2. Even if it is true, it's still barbaric. The threat of assualt to make a creature do something so that a bunch of punters can profit. If I were the horse I would prefer a good honest head butt from the heart than a corrupt, pervasive exploitation over years.

still luv ya though!

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:18 am

This is just an extract from the Jockey Club's rule H9. Basically a rider can be banned for doing any one of the following.

Hitting horses:
to the extent of causing injury;
with the whip arm above shoulder height;
rapidly without regard to their stride, i.e. twice or more in one stride;
with excessive force;
without giving the horse time to respond.
Hitting horses which are:
showing no response;
out of contention;
clearly winning;
past the winning post.
Hitting horses in any place except:
on the quarters with the whip in either the backhand or forehand position;
down the shoulder with the whip in the backhand position;
unless very exceptional circumstances prevail.
Hitting horses:
with excessive frequency.

I appreciate that it still seems pretty barbaric, but it shows there are some rules in place. I used to work in the bookies every Saturday back in the 70s and jockeys were frequently suspended for improper use of the whip.

Sim · Post by **Sim** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:40 am

I personally didn't see the problem with it in this particular case. Looking at the footage he headbuts the horse and the horse doesn't even react, im sure he/she got the point that he wasn't hhurt or did not look as though he was hurt. To me its just like smacking a dog if they're naughty and why shyouldn't you, as long as its not excessive, because you have to make them realise they've done worng. Now yes this was a head butt, but horses can take more abnd don't feel as much, so for the horse it was probably like a dog being smacked, i think its stupid, and besides traners whip the hell out of horses, a whip would hurt more than a head but becuase the surface area is a lot smaller, so really, the head butt should not have been punished in my eyes but why not ban all whipping.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:23 pm

My missus schools horses and gives lessons to other riders. I've never seen her hit a horse whilst mounted on it and I know she would never condone any of her pupils doing it.

However, sometimes horses of a certain nature will get really moody and uncooperative and she'll hand the rider a crop just so the horse and see it. It very often does the trick.

So to answer Sim's suggestion, I think you could ban hitting racehorses with crops but as many riders might agree, if you're sitting high up on a wound up super-fast horse, it might be nice to have a crop at your disposal just in case.

Problem is of course, horse racing is an international sport, so any rule change takes a while.

redtiger · Post by **redtiger** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:37 pm

i saw that on sky sports this morning, that guy is a nutter, i would ban him for life and not let him near any wanimals, not even ponies even tho ponies are :censored:.

DCat · Post by **DCat** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:53 pm

From what I understand in horse racing, the whip is usually waved at the horse - then the horse is actually hit is where the improper use comes in.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:38 am

DCat wrote:From what I understand in horse racing, the whip is usually waved at the horse - then the horse is actually hit is where the improper use comes in.

Exactly

Cornish Tiger · Post by **Cornish Tiger** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:35 pm

Kinny quote "However, sometimes horses of a certain nature will get really moody and uncooperative and she'll hand the rider a crop just so the horse and see it. It very often does the trick."

WHAT! Don't you see how awful that is, though. Why riders think that this poor beast has to do what they say or else? It's truly appalling. A threat of violence is no better than actual violence. The horse is uncooperative because it wants this pillock off its back and get back to some good old grass munching. And who can blame it. Would your wife happily carry you about on her back wherever you wanted to go, and if she didn't you'd threaten her! It's the same argument slave owners used back in the Deep South. "I never beat my slaves so I'm a good slave owner". There is no such thing as a good slave owner.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:52 pm

Well to put it into perspective, I've known my missus, Diane, for 15 years and in all that time I've never known her strike any horse whilst riding it.

All her horses love her and will do anything for her.

However, one youngster she bought, called Jake, had clearly grown up with a big protective thing about his stable. He had some scars when we got him, so I guess he'd been abused by somebody in his stable.

Now, he has landed on his feet, he loves us, he does superb dressage, he's nice with the other horses.

But: He's a nightmare in his stable. Diane is the only person that will go in there and he really reacts instinctively, turning his back and getting ready to boot her with both hind legs, which can easily be fatal.

She copes with this, but believe me, when she was recovering from an operation and our friends had to help handle him, they had to carry a crop or something, just to remind him who was boss, otherwise he is far too unpredictable in that situation.