Panorama Documentary - England fans

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redtiger
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Panorama Documentary - England fans

Post by redtiger » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:13 pm

anyone just watched it?? nice to see that even in spite of the 3000 most hardcore hooligans being detained back in blighty the roundball fans still managed to cause some serious rioting in germany. specially as i have a ticket for the Greece friendly on the 16th of this month. feeling kinda nervous now. :cry:
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westwinds31
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Post by westwinds31 » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:45 pm

Absolutely disgraceful.....how can people act like that and get away with it....the racist comments and attacks were partcularly disturbing I thought....there is no hope !!!!

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Post by redtiger » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:55 am

it was embarrassing, i was in berlin for the trinidad and tobago game and it was all very cosmopolitan, i went drinking with three lads who were essentially of pakistani origin, had a good laugh with them too, i couldn't begin to imagine how i'd feel if a group of "england fans" were in the streets chanting "i'd rather be a [email protected] than a kraut". these lads i went drinking with were just as english as me, but at the end of the day it transcends nationality these people are just uneducated yobs
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Post by Iain » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:41 am

Much as I'd love to be out there for a World Cup, I'd always be put off by the idea of being associated by such morons. I have never been to an England football international but remember watching Euro 2004 on a big screen in Birmingham and couldn't believe some of the things going on. Bottles being launched at the big screen, the ridiculous "No surrender to the IRA" singing (what has that got to do with anything?) and when a guy of Asian descent voiced his opinion on the match he was told "well its not like you fly the flag is it?"
I would say though Red that stupidity like this never seems to happen in the ground, I can hand on heart say I have never seen any trouble IN a ground. I have never actually seen it outised a ground either, but I'm aware it does happen, and largely seems to be organised.
I don't class these morons as true football fans. They are just trouble makers who happen to watch football. For a better example of how travelling sports fans from this country should be judged look at the Lions tour of New Zealand last year. The friendly banter and friendship formed with the New Zealand fans was excellent and a real joy to be at. The results of the games were secondary to everyone out there to the great time we all had. The only bad behaviour I heard or saw was a group of Welsh fans in Rotorus singing "I'd rather wear a turban than a rose" moronically at English fans in the same bar. Pretty dumb, but if thats as bad as it gets then there isn't a huge problem.

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Post by redtiger » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:51 am

this is my first england game, i'm goin cause i wanna see old trafford more than anything, as much as i dislike unaaahted it is an awesome ground and i love my stadia. when i go to a ground though i tend to get there early and park away from the ground and then walk up, so just hope i don't bump into a "meet". i'll report back on any dodgy chanting, hell i might even shop a moron to the stewards :lol:
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Post by Kinoulton » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:55 am

I've been going to football matches home and away for 40 odd years and haven't seen much trouble.

Contrary to popular opinion you can ALWAYS drink before the game with the "opposition" fans.

This happens at virtually every Forest home game at the Larwood & Voce and the only thing that prevents it is when the police decide to make it "Away Fans Only".

It's been the same at every away game except Derby & Leicester (obviously) and for some reason, Bolton.

I think the problem stems where you have, say 0.5% of fans who are nutters, 95% of fans who have wouldn't dream of causing trouble, but then this impressionable 4.5% who don't go specifically to cause trouble, but if it kicks off and they've had lots to drink, they'll wade in.

That makes 5%, and 5% of a 30,000 crowd is 1,500 potential trouble makers. That's a riot in the making.

The answer is simple, because it worked at Forest when Cloughie got the police, magistrates and local press to collaborate.

Wherever trouble flared up the police would chuck as many people into the meat wagon as possible. They were up in front of the magistrate next day, charged with affray and depending upon their past record were fined or imprisoned immediately.

The next day, they were named and shamed in the Nottingham Evening Post. Totally unfair of course and plenty of weeping parents complaining "My Jamie is such a nice boy, he said he was just trying to find his friend."

But guess what? It worked.
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Post by redtiger » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:12 am

[quote="Kinoulton"]I've been going to football matches home and away for 40 odd years and haven't seen much trouble.

Contrary to popular opinion you can ALWAYS drink before the game with the "opposition" fans.

you can at home yeah, i think hooliganism here in league games is all but dead. the mad nazi nutters tend to save themselves for international games, and defend their ignorance under the banner of "patriotism". er ok whatever you say mr hooligan :roll:
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Post by Sim » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:41 am

I watched the start of it and then my dad turned it off so i went to bed, but what i saw was disgraceful although we can't just blame England fans, the Germans holligans waited until a lot of the England fans had goen off and ambushed them so although our hooligans were disgraceful they're not totally to blame. Unfoir,tunantly for English Football i don't think hoolignaism will ever be a thing of the past or not for a long time anyway so we'll have to keep putting up with this and the reputation it gives us, although i think we can say that the number of incidents has dramatically dropped, probably partly through common sense and these mindless idiots actually growing up and maturing but largely to do with police tactics and the banning of fans as well as evidence gathering etc via, video footage and other means.

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Post by westwinds31 » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:21 pm

It's the whole fake-patriotism thing that is disturbing to me. Just like our players on the pitch, we are living off something that happened 40 years ago on the pitch (1966 World Cup win) and from about 10 years previous from the fans point of view. Yes, Britannia DID rule the waves back then, but we are now an insignificant island to the North-West of Europe. In a way, although I have the utmost respect to anyone who fought in the war, and am in the forces myself, I do blame the second world war and our reaction to 'winning' it. No one could touch us, we had defeated the evil Hitler and his forces.

The sight of young kids singing "there were 10 German bombers"...was sad and disgraceful, more for the fact that they more than likely had no idea what they were singing or how offensive it was. The mob mentality is the highest form of cowardice....stood with 200 drunken louts you feel as hard as nails, but these people on their own are pathetic individuals with no meaning in life and no function within society.

No surrender to the IRA - do me a favour !!

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Post by Kinoulton » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:24 am

But one thing we mustn't do is let these thugs hi-jack patriotism, the Union Flag, the St George's Cross, the love of our country etc etc.

The ninnies who say that flying the English flag is offensive are doing more harm than the thugs and wouldn't be allowed to come out with such tripe in any other nation.

I lived and worked in Nigeria, a country with huge ethnic differences (Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Fulani etc etc), religious differences (Christian v Muslim) and historic scars (e.g. the Biafran war).

The one thing that united them and gave them hope was the love of Nigeria as a country and the determination to make it great.

Supporting your country is not being racist when that country contains a huge diversity of races, and that is the case in England and the rest of the UK.
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Post by redtiger » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:43 pm

i find it sad that 61 years after the war ended, people still come out with RAF songs, it's just lazy hooliganism. they should at least come out with something more contemporary before glassing someone in the face. on a more serious note, it comes back to what i said on a previous thread back in 1936 during the great famine in idaho. racism is just a banner for more disturbing psychological defunct behaviour.
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Post by Dave W » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:22 pm

Pathetic, mindless thugs - did you also see the yobs fighting around their children - absolutely disgraceful.
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