Andy Murray

stevetelcom2000 · Post by **stevetelcom2000** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:35 pm

[quote="dailywaffle"]I find it ammusing when a celt supports 'anyone but the English'. It just exposes their own (personal) sense of inferiority.

Why does it?
Please explain....

dailywaffle · Post by **dailywaffle** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:44 pm

stevetelcom2000 wrote:
dailywaffle wrote:I find it ammusing when a celt supports 'anyone but the English'. It just exposes their own (personal) sense of inferiority.

Why does it?
Please explain....

In answer to steve, I can only base my knowledge on personal experience.

I have lived with celts, worked with celts, have some celtic blood in me and am a good catholic. Thought I would put that in to deflect any 'arrogant english' stuff.

Anyway, let me give a personal example from many years ago, way back at Bristol uni. Lots of welsh there, cracking boys and girls, lovely memories of the time and place. However, something peculiar would take hold of the collective welsh psyche every winter, around about five (as it was) nations time. Essentially, to be a patriotic Welsh boy or girl it seemed that you had to want the French/Scots/Irish to knock the living daylights out of the English. A few injuries, at least to rule them out for the next few weeks, was an added bonus. Banter is great, but this went much deeper, and something that I found very hard to relate to. As time went by, many of these patriotic chaps would admit to the fact that they had never really got over the mongrel English kicking them out of this green and pleasant land, and this was their way of getting some 'payback'.

Over many years, I have had similar experiences with otherwise terrific people, who have a complete blind spot when it comes to looking at the English. I can think of the Irish work colleague who insisted that the English were no better than the Nazis. The Scottish client who despises English football and still hasn't recovered from '66. The aquaintance (no longer a friend) who, despite having an English passport, is an out and out racist when 'his' cricket team (formerly a colony) playes England.

Please, I am not suggesting that these experiences are universal, and I do not wish to offend anyone on here (too late, you might say !). But all of these people seem to think that they 'owe' the English one, due to events that happened many years before they were born. I emphasise that these experiences went way beyond the general banter that, we all agree, is fun.

I can only put this down, in these INDIVIDUAL cases, to a deep seated sense of inferiority.

steve, I have answered the question as best as I can - feel free to come back if you wish.

Phil B · Post by **Phil B** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:19 pm

I make no comment on what you have written, except that it is very well put.

stevetelcom2000 · Post by **stevetelcom2000** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:36 am

Dailywaffle. Thanks for the lengthy reply. But you havent addressed the 'deep seated sense of inferiority,' claim. All you have given is an example of 'Celts' who have chosen not to support England. I'm not sure how you being a Catholic (good or otherwise) lend's to your argument either . I also would vey much like to meet your English passport holder friend. He is quite unique, being the only holder of such a document.
It is a trait in sport that people have teams/countrys that they don't like to see do well. England have Argentina, Germany ( playing today) France etc. Or as they are known to you affectionally as Argie's, Krauts, & Froggy's. Tiger's fan's hate Wasp's. Wasp's don't give a monkey's about Tiger's. There are plenty of example's where rivalry is just 1 way. It dosent make either side inferior. I myself have never supported England in anything. I certainly do not feel inferior because of it. Quite the opposite.
On the radio today even the England soccer game against Portugal was being described as a grudge match because of a game played a few years ago where Portugal knocked England out.. How many 'Grudge Matches' do England have?

dailywaffle · Post by **dailywaffle** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:55 pm

steve

Thanks for the come back, it sure makes a change from reading about bubble wrap parties and the like

Just taking some of your points, if I may:

My being catholic is not meant to lend weight to my argument. I just wanted to pre-emptively avoid any accusations of 'English / Anglican superiority complex syndrome' (believe me, I have had that argument with a republican from Belfast !).

The English passport is a lazy criticism, if you don't mind me saying. My missive was about the celtic / colonial view of the English; hence the use of the phrase 'English Passport'. I suppose I should have put 'English' in quotes, apologies if this offended you.

You mention rivalries. I think this is at the heart of things. To be honest, from an English perspective, grudge matches are media creations. I am convinced that your average John Smith couldn't care less if 'Big Phil' is in charge of Portugal, this is not a grudge match it is just a game that England want to win. Pure and simple. Trevor Brooking said as much this morning. I personally hold no grudge against the teams that you refer to, I certainly do not hate Wasps, Argentina etc. I very confidently assert that Tigers fans do not hate Wasps, nor the English the 'Argies' (horrible, media driven phrase) in the same way that SOME celts and commonwealth citizens appear to hate the English. I accept that there will always be small minded exceptions.

I make no accusation about your own views on the English. You say that you have never supported England. Fair enough. I would be more interested in knowing who you supported when England played Australia, or who you will support when England play Portugal. If your answer is 'not really bothered' then my initial comment was certainly not aimed at you. If you supported the other teams purely to wind up a thin-skinned English friend then, fair play to you, that is just part of the fun.

However, if your answer is a passionate 'Australia / Portugal' then I respectively suggest that you have a problem with England or the English. Given that this problem presumably relates to a historical grudge over what the English did many years ago, would it be fair to say that the grudge is irrational ?

I'm not saying that a sense of inferiority DOES explain such an irrational grudge. However, I am saying that a sense of inferiority CAN explain it.

Phew, another long reply, but (IMO) an interesting topic. Please don't take anything I have said personally, just looking to have an objective debate on this issue.

Regards DW

Sim · Post by **Sim** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:17 pm

I think its a shame......... that Murry got through that is.

QUESTION: Simeon who are you supporting at Wimbledon this year?

ANSWER: " Anyone whose playing Andy Murry!!!"

Gate · Post by **Gate** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:50 am

I could get all poxy about how Scots are far from being exclusively Celtic, and how the notion of "Celt" is as much cultural as ethnic or genetic (give the origin of the Celtic culture in the Danube basin). Or indeed about how the population of Scotland has been static since the 1890s, and you have to wonder where all those Jocks have gone (and whether the answer is that England is rotten with us). But all I will say, as a card-carrying Jock, is that I have no time for Murray either. Petulant get.

Not that I care much for Henman either.

matt_j_12 · Post by **matt_j_12** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:23 pm

Hes just slaughtered Roddick. Hope he goes all the way!

mrsmoody · Post by **mrsmoody** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 pm

still cant believe you're watching the tennis!! what was the score in the end? saw the nadal v agassi game earlier, glad nadal went through but was sad for agassi! he was holding back the tears at the end! when i was younger (and a future budding star :P ) i remember threading my ponytail through my hat like he used to!!

matt_j_12 · Post by **matt_j_12** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:34 pm

haha! was he your role model! hope you dont have a hair line like his though!

mrsmoody · Post by **mrsmoody** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:39 pm

no he wasnt! didnt watch it then, just remember seeing when he used to have long hair he threaded his ponytail through the back of his cap! lol

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:12 pm

mrsmoody wrote:still cant believe you're watching the tennis!! what was the score in the end? saw the nadal v agassi game earlier, glad nadal went through but was sad for agassi! he was holding back the tears at the end! when i was younger (and a future budding star :P ) i remember threading my ponytail through my hat like he used to!!

I was there on centre court cheering Nadal on. I did feel a bit sorry for Agassi though. he is a true legend of the game. Nadal was awesome. A Nadal v Federer final really would be fantastic

mrsmoody · Post by **mrsmoody** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:24 pm

my uncle plays tennis (think he once had an oppertunity to play at wimbledon or something) and gets loads of tickets and he's going to try and get me one! i'll even get into the players lounge!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D will be soooo good hope i can go!!

Ollie smith rules · Post by **Ollie smith rules** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:31 pm

That would be cool Han.

Sim whats so wrong with Andy Murray????? All the other Brittish players suck

Jess · Post by **Jess** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:09 pm

i don't really like andy murray. to me he comes accross as a bit of a spoilt brat. however, i think it would be fantastic to see a brit win wimbledon.