Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

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Postiger2
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by Postiger2 »

Agree with the sentiments around Smith. Fabulous player but I wonder if he can control a game at test level. Obviously I'm biased but if George Ford had played in that side yesterday, with that much front-foot ball, I'm convinced that England win that game. That's not to say it's all down to Smith of course, it's just that that could have been the difference imho.

On the other hand Smith will never learn to control a test match sat on the bench but I do wonder if he's all most too instinctive. In my opinion, Ford is England's best FH by a distance because he intrinsically knows when to go back to basics, when to kick and when to open it up. His spiral bombs would have given Aus something more to think about yesterday as our kicks innocuous.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by sapajo »

Postiger2 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:18 am Agree with the sentiments around Smith. Fabulous player but I wonder if he can control a game at test level. Obviously I'm biased but if George Ford had played in that side yesterday, with that much front-foot ball, I'm convinced that England win that game. That's not to say it's all down to Smith of course, it's just that that could have been the difference imho.

On the other hand Smith will never learn to control a test match sat on the bench but I do wonder if he's all most too instinctive. In my opinion, Ford is England's best FH by a distance because he intrinsically knows when to go back to basics, when to kick and when to open it up. His spiral bombs would have given Aus something more to think about yesterday as our kicks innocuous.
Agreed, sadly we will never know if George would have been selected for the Australia Tour if he did not suffer his injury in the Prem Final.
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Postiger2
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by Postiger2 »

Just watching the game again and I have to say I'm really losing patience with it. I'm struggling to remember a recent game which wasn't essentially a contest entirely about referee management. What on earth was going on at the breakdown today? You had players (both teams) off their feet and in at the side all the time. Sometimes the tackler was told to move away, sometimes not (the Hooper turnover on his own line was a clear case of the tackler moving towards England - not sideways. In England that's always a penalty to the attackers).

Watching a game now is 75% wondering who gets penalised next. Scrums today were a shambles, too. I'm not sure what the game needs to do, but it's getting unwatchable. Maybe it's always been like this, but it's making it very hard to enjoy as a sporting contest. Play the ref better, win. Not much fun to watch.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by wigworth »

Postiger2 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:33 am Just watching the game again and I have to say I'm really losing patience with it. I'm struggling to remember a recent game which wasn't essentially a contest entirely about referee management. What on earth was going on at the breakdown today? You had players (both teams) off their feet and in at the side all the time. Sometimes the tackler was told to move away, sometimes not (the Hooper turnover on his own line was a clear case of the tackler moving towards England - not sideways. In England that's always a penalty to the attackers).

Watching a game now is 75% wondering who gets penalised next. Scrums today were a shambles, too. I'm not sure what the game needs to do, but it's getting unwatchable. Maybe it's always been like this, but it's making it very hard to enjoy as a sporting contest. Play the ref better, win. Not much fun to watch.
It maybe silly but it might be better in someway if the game regressed and rucks just became a free for all again, as you say due to the seemingly wide variety of interpretations of the different refs which in themselves don't necessarily seem that consistent week to week, it has become a lottery to what side of them you might end up on.

I would also not be opposed to having more offenses downgraded to free kicks instead of penalties just to stop some of the more cynical play around trying to milk penalty decisions out of referees.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by wormus »

What an opportunity lost! I believe Chessum should have come on after Hill's yellow card, Care was running out of steam and JVP should have been on about the 65th and Heyes at the same point. I think its time to consider Farrell as a 10 and play Porter off the bench in the centre and Smith off the bench too.
Yesterdays game management (or lack of!) by Eddie Jones so reminded me of the Matt O'Connor days when he would not consider playing the young players so many times even though they were on the bench. eg Olowofela away at Exeter when we were already playing terribly with no fast players. :smt022
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by Old Hob »

Postiger2 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:18 am Agree with the sentiments around Smith. Fabulous player but I wonder if he can control a game at test level. Obviously I'm biased but if George Ford had played in that side yesterday, with that much front-foot ball, I'm convinced that England win that game. That's not to say it's all down to Smith of course, it's just that that could have been the difference imho.

On the other hand Smith will never learn to control a test match sat on the bench but I do wonder if he's all most too instinctive. In my opinion, Ford is England's best FH by a distance because he intrinsically knows when to go back to basics, when to kick and when to open it up. His spiral bombs would have given Aus something more to think about yesterday as our kicks innocuous.
Smith will never learn to control a game at test level while he has Farrell taking his decision making away.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by longlivethecrumbie »

I did notice that Farrell was taking all the kick offs and restarts yesterday
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by LE18 »

longlivethecrumbie wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:31 pm I did notice that Farrell was taking all the kick offs and restarts yesterday
Farrell is a shoe in for Jones, I believe poor Smith was playing second fiddle to him and ended up without enough first time ball to be able to take control. Farrell is the problem, play him at fly half, or not at all, and you know what you will get from him. If he hadn't missed those two kicks we would have won. I have great sympathy for Smith.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by sam16111986 »

Old Hob wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:24 am
Postiger2 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:18 am Agree with the sentiments around Smith. Fabulous player but I wonder if he can control a game at test level. Obviously I'm biased but if George Ford had played in that side yesterday, with that much front-foot ball, I'm convinced that England win that game. That's not to say it's all down to Smith of course, it's just that that could have been the difference imho.

On the other hand Smith will never learn to control a test match sat on the bench but I do wonder if he's all most too instinctive. In my opinion, Ford is England's best FH by a distance because he intrinsically knows when to go back to basics, when to kick and when to open it up. His spiral bombs would have given Aus something more to think about yesterday as our kicks innocuous.
Smith will never learn to control a game at test level while he has Farrell taking his decision making away.
Farrell's roll is to take the pressure from Smith and free him up to take a look at the bigger picture and dictate. Just because he's not touching the ball every phase doesn't mean he's not directing things. The issue is that he's being asked to play the Ford role and I don't think he really has the skills for that. He didn't look comfortable in the 6N either. As talented as he is I'm not sure he's going to be the answer for this England team and the way Eddie wants to play.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by teds »

Old Hob wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:24 am
Postiger2 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:18 am Agree with the sentiments around Smith. Fabulous player but I wonder if he can control a game at test level. Obviously I'm biased but if George Ford had played in that side yesterday, with that much front-foot ball, I'm convinced that England win that game. That's not to say it's all down to Smith of course, it's just that that could have been the difference imho.

On the other hand Smith will never learn to control a test match sat on the bench but I do wonder if he's all most too instinctive. In my opinion, Ford is England's best FH by a distance because he intrinsically knows when to go back to basics, when to kick and when to open it up. His spiral bombs would have given Aus something more to think about yesterday as our kicks innocuous.
Smith will never learn to control a game at test level while he has Farrell taking his decision making away.
Totally. I’d drop Farrell to the bench and give Smith the chance to sink or swim.
It’s possible they might be able to play in tandem at 10-12, but it took Ford years to fully adapt his game to Farrell’s limitations.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by LE18 »

Smiths problem is he's a running fly half, England are only used to kicking fly halves, ie Ford and Farrell, they really only know how to playing the kicking, chasing game, its the way Jones wants it and I think Smith has found Jones out, Jones does not know Smiths style and is having to try to learn it but still insists on Farrell being in the side so confusion rains and this leaves us with muddled tactics.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by DeadlyDunc »

LE18 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:37 pm Smiths problem is he's a running fly half, England are only used to kicking fly halves, ie Ford and Farrell, they really only know how to playing the kicking, chasing game, its the way Jones wants it and I think Smith has found Jones out, Jones does not know Smiths style and is having to try to learn it but still insists on Farrell being in the side so confusion rains and this leaves us with muddled tactics.
To be fair most of the successful teams kick a heck of a lot but with reason and a strategy.

Quins play a pretty unconventional ball in hand style looking for multiple phases and quick ball with lots of running options.

I think EJ needs to go back to what he understands and that is a power game with an uncomplicated kicking game and pace out wide. At the moment, as you say, it’s a bit of a muddle where Smith is involved but often so deep from the gainline that he’s borderline pointless.

As much as it pains me to say, that means starting Farrell and going back to basics.

The bit I would work hard on is having Smith on the bench as a plan B and working out a bench/system we could switch to if Farrell Plan A isn’t working.
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by Leicestertinytiger »

Seems that Curry will be out of the second test because of HIA. Surely Jones has to roll the dice and change things up.

Genge (c) LCD Stuart
Itoje Lawes
Willis Vunipola Ludlam
Care Farrell
Porter Marchant
May Steward Nowell

Vunipola George Heyes Chessum Underhill JVP Smith Aurendell
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Re: Aus v England - 09th July 2022 - Team to save Eddies job!

Post by mol2 »

Send for Freddy Burns.
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