Proposed changes to semi finals

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daktari
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by daktari »

teds wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:32 pm
Dokie wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:59 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:42 pm Am I right in saying that the play offs were originally introduced because it gave those teams that suffered international call ups a chance to catch up, or is that just in my imagination
You’re right
That’s not how I remember it and indeed the team who had suffered the most international call ups (Tigers) voted against the playoffs being used to decide league champions. The playoffs were introduced to raise some money and to stop Tigers from winning it every year.
This I think was reason - pressure from the then sponsors
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GETHIN EXILE
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by GETHIN EXILE »

daktari wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:29 pm
teds wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:32 pm
Dokie wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:59 pm
You’re right
That’s not how I remember it and indeed the team who had suffered the most international call ups (Tigers) voted against the playoffs being used to decide league champions. The playoffs were introduced to raise some money and to stop Tigers from winning it every year.
This I think was reason - pressure from the then sponsors
I'm pretty sure that in the first few seasons it was 2nd played 3rd in a semi final for the right to face the team who finished top
Scott1
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by Scott1 »

GB72 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:00 pm if there has to be play offs then the fairest option that I can think of is that the team finishing top automatically qualify for the final then there is a significant benefit to being number one. You can then play off in any way you like for whichever team earns the right to face them in the final.

That said, whilst sportingly more fair, it would lose that club a significant amount of income from not playing a semi final match and I guess at the moment it is get money where you can when you can. I suspect if you asked the club if they wanted a trophy now or the revenue from 1 or 2 more big matches, the revenue would be more important for the future.
Great idea re first paragraph 👍
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

GB72 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:00 pm if there has to be play offs then the fairest option that I can think of is that the team finishing top automatically qualify for the final then there is a significant benefit to being number one. You can then play off in any way you like for whichever team earns the right to face them in the final.

That said, whilst sportingly more fair, it would lose that club a significant amount of income from not playing a semi final match and I guess at the moment it is get money where you can when you can. I suspect if you asked the club if they wanted a trophy now or the revenue from 1 or 2 more big matches, the revenue would be more important for the future.
I'd do it like this...

Week 1:
1st H vs 2nd (SF1)
3rd H vs 4th (QF)

Week 2:
Loser SF1 H vs Winner QF (SF2)

Week 3:
Winner of both Semi-finals play in the final.


Gives advantages to every position over each other (even 3rd get home advantage vs 4th), top 2 get a chance for recovery after a one off loss and the winner out of the first semifinal has an extra week off as reward before the final.
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johnthegriff
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by johnthegriff »

When the play offs were introduced they went down to the eighth place, the reason given was to enable those teams handicapped by England call up a better chance of the Premiership trophy, we all know that whilst there is some justification for that the real reason is based on money. Since the introduction of the system the authorities have become more aware of limiting game time for players and training systems with heath and conditioning have improved tremendously. I do think that there should be a trophy for finishing top of the League and a separate play off maybe with 1st and 2nd guaranteed a home semi final but possibly team 3 to 6 playing a quarter final for the right to play in the semi there is then an incentive to have the opportunity to host a money earning match for teams 1 to 4.
Old Hob
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by Old Hob »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:52 pm
GB72 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:00 pm if there has to be play offs then the fairest option that I can think of is that the team finishing top automatically qualify for the final then there is a significant benefit to being number one. You can then play off in any way you like for whichever team earns the right to face them in the final.

That said, whilst sportingly more fair, it would lose that club a significant amount of income from not playing a semi final match and I guess at the moment it is get money where you can when you can. I suspect if you asked the club if they wanted a trophy now or the revenue from 1 or 2 more big matches, the revenue would be more important for the future.
I'd do it like this...

Week 1:
1st H vs 2nd (SF1)
3rd H vs 4th (QF)

Week 2:
Loser SF1 H vs Winner QF (SF2)

Week 3:
Winner of both Semi-finals play in the final.


Gives advantages to every position over each other (even 3rd get home advantage vs 4th), top 2 get a chance for recovery after a one off loss and the winner out of the first semifinal has an extra week off as reward before the final.
But under your system, Steve the top club gets only one extra payday - so better to come second :smt017 Assuming 1st beats 2nd.
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
Dangerous4
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by Dangerous4 »

This idea has just come to me. Why not have the team that comes top of the Premiership declared the winner! :smt102
GB72
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by GB72 »

That is a fair and sensible idea but then think about the number of players who can get paid simply from the money brought in over those one or two big matches. All the clusb need every penny they can get and so maybe we let this one slide so as the clubs can afford to keep the lights on.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Old Hob wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:27 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:52 pm
GB72 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:00 pm if there has to be play offs then the fairest option that I can think of is that the team finishing top automatically qualify for the final then there is a significant benefit to being number one. You can then play off in any way you like for whichever team earns the right to face them in the final.

That said, whilst sportingly more fair, it would lose that club a significant amount of income from not playing a semi final match and I guess at the moment it is get money where you can when you can. I suspect if you asked the club if they wanted a trophy now or the revenue from 1 or 2 more big matches, the revenue would be more important for the future.
I'd do it like this...

Week 1:
1st H vs 2nd (SF1)
3rd H vs 4th (QF)

Week 2:
Loser SF1 H vs Winner QF (SF2)

Week 3:
Winner of both Semi-finals play in the final.


Gives advantages to every position over each other (even 3rd get home advantage vs 4th), top 2 get a chance for recovery after a one off loss and the winner out of the first semifinal has an extra week off as reward before the final.
But under your system, Steve the top club gets only one extra payday - so better to come second :smt017 Assuming 1st beats 2nd.
Given the home club is the one with the payday the team in 1st place are the only ones who can play at home twice. Essentially the only ones of the top 3 who may avoid a home payday are the team in 2nd place if they win away vs the first place team. However I think pros outweigh cons in that
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Big Dai
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by Big Dai »

Dangerous4 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:35 pm This idea has just come to me. Why not have the team that comes top of the Premiership declared the winner! :smt102
I'm with this guy
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Scott1
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by Scott1 »

Wonder if the same people minded when we won it from 2nd and 3rd place 😉
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Old Hob
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Re: Proposed changes to semi finals

Post by Old Hob »

Scott1 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:28 pm Wonder if the same people minded when we won it from 2nd and 3rd place 😉
True. We were providing 8 or 9 players to England if I remember correctly, and we struggled somewhat during the internationals.
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