European finals weekend - May 2022

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Rugbygramps
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Rugbygramps »

Scott1 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:23 am
sapajo wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:19 am
Scott1 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:18 am SA sides confirmed,yesssssss!
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 13307.html
Oh no :smt012
Great news for me,makes the competition better and hopefully it will give the URC the kick up the butt it needs now teams know they have to do better to guarantee qualification. Win win all round!
So you are hoping that URC teams who have neither the money or the infrastructure to improve greatly will be given a kick up the butt to up their performance in a competition they have zero chance of winning. Or maybe they will just cut their cloth to fit survival
Scott1
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Scott1 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:32 am
Scott1 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:23 am
sapajo wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:19 am

Oh no :smt012
Great news for me,makes the competition better and hopefully it will give the URC the kick up the butt it needs now teams know they have to do better to guarantee qualification. Win win all round!
So you are hoping that URC teams who have neither the money or the infrastructure to improve greatly will be given a kick up the butt to up their performance in a competition they have zero chance of winning. Or maybe they will just cut their cloth to fit survival
A lot of teams have zero chance of winning it,but let's not try ay,in the cup or in their league? Booooo zzzzzzzz obviously not a watcher of the URC then
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Rugbygramps
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Rugbygramps »

Scott1 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:34 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:32 am
Scott1 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:23 am

Great news for me,makes the competition better and hopefully it will give the URC the kick up the butt it needs now teams know they have to do better to guarantee qualification. Win win all round!
So you are hoping that URC teams who have neither the money or the infrastructure to improve greatly will be given a kick up the butt to up their performance in a competition they have zero chance of winning. Or maybe they will just cut their cloth to fit survival
A lot of teams have zero chance of winning it,but let's not try ay,in the cup or in their league? Booooo zzzzzzzz obviously not a watcher of the URC then
But my point is Scott that you think the introduction of the South African teams will push others to improve where as it is equally likely that it could have the reverse effect. You are right about cups but in the premiership for example it isn’t just about winning , it’s qualifying for the top 4 or the top 8, each club knows realistically what their expectations are at the beginning of the season.

Anyway just giving an alternative point of view, I know the prospect of some big South Africans running around gets you very excited so I’ll leave you to it.
johnthegriff
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by johnthegriff »

For me when I talk about rugby I often use the word " club " the European Champions Cup is not a cup competition as I think it should be it is already spoiled by various national Union funded provinces being given an unfair advantage and to bring South Africa into the the competition just makes it worse. Travel costs for the clubs funded largely by bums on seats will increase which may well be reflected in increases in the price of season and Premiership match tickets, most fans will be unable to follow their team when they play in South Africa and they may well be discouraged from travelling to Munster, Bordeaux, Toulon and Treviso when they have to accept that their dream of being there to see their team win a Heineken Cup Final is impossible.
O.K the competition may be stronger for the inclusion of Southern Hemisphere teams and that is alright for those watching on television and neutrals, but those who actually enjoy attending live rugby may be discouraged and may well consider whether it is worthwhile bothering to follow their team to actual matches home and away.
For me the Welsh and the Scottish Unions are unable to properly fund their provincial teams and they should concentrate on developing decent club competition with outside even if it means agreeing to join the Premiership.
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Scott1 »

See I think that’s the main difference in opinions. Some posters automatic thoughts are “well how am I going to get to SA if we draw a SA team?”
Whereas my first thought is what an fantastic opportunity for club and players to get a feel of SA rugby. It will be brutal but incredible. This will be the closest to international SH rugby that some players might ever get. But hey ho,each to their own I suppose
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by johnthegriff »

We saw recently that Leinster sent a reserve squad to play two League games in South Africa so that their team would not be disadvantaged by travel when they played what they view as the more important European fixture at Welford Road.
Travel to S.A would involve a day for the journey, a day to recover and get used to conditions, possible altitude etc, a day for the match and a day to return, say fly out Thursday, play Saturday return Sunday, three night hotel and travel costs. Our normal training week is conditioning and review on Monday, training on Tuesday with the match squad working towards tactics for the following weekend, Wednesday/Thursday training and a day off with Captains Run on Friday. A journey to South Africa will disrupt training which is already affected by England training squads outside of the international windows of course this does not affect a team like Leinster as they are basically the national squad anyway.
I did not realise I was being selfish by wanting to actually see my team play and watch them give of their very best in return for my season ticket money and not wanting to see that cost increased whilst the value of that contribution I make is reduced as the Premiership is devalued in the way that the URC has been with Irish provinces fielding reserve teams and star names playing in only about a quarter of the matches.
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Scott1 »

johnthegriff wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:07 pm We saw recently that Leinster sent a reserve squad to play two League games in South Africa so that their team would not be disadvantaged by travel when they played what they view as the more important European fixture at Welford Road.
Travel to S.A would involve a day for the journey, a day to recover and get used to conditions, possible altitude etc, a day for the match and a day to return, say fly out Thursday, play Saturday return Sunday, three night hotel and travel costs. Our normal training week is conditioning and review on Monday, training on Tuesday with the match squad working towards tactics for the following weekend, Wednesday/Thursday training and a day off with Captains Run on Friday. A journey to South Africa will disrupt training which is already affected by England training squads outside of the international windows of course this does not affect a team like Leinster as they are basically the national squad anyway.
I did not realise I was being selfish by wanting to actually see my team play and watch them give of their very best in return for my season ticket money and not wanting to see that cost increased whilst the value of that contribution I make is reduced as the Premiership is devalued in the way that the URC has been with Irish provinces fielding reserve teams and star names playing in only about a quarter of the matches.
Started off well and then blew it at the end sadly
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by johnthegriff »

Yep I really blew it, I happily allowed my direct debit to continue whilst my club was closed during the pandemic and then had to play matches without spectators but I felt my small contribution helped. Now I see that decisions I believe made because CVC are taking control of my sport and because I believe that will have a detrimental affect on the competition I pay most of my money for, the extra costs at a time when salary caps are being cut and when most clubs are struggling to meet their commitments and are in danger of going out of business, when I think that the next step will be to regionalise teams creating an East Midlands or maybe just a Midlands side, another for the North, one for the South West and one for London I should say nothing, at my age I may not see the end of rugby as I know it, who cares if it is there as a professional game for future generations. On the other hand I might just be selfish, say what I think and want the best value possible for my money.
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by ay2oh »

I’ve had a season ticket since 1984 but if the game went regional it’s bye bye from me.
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by wigworth »

I'm not quite sure why you think regionalised teams are next, has there has ever been any serious mention of English clubs disbanding and becoming regions?
Last edited by wigworth on Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sam16111986
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by sam16111986 »

wigworth wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:03 pm I'm not quite sure why you think regionalised teams are next, has there has ever been any serious mention of English clubs disbanding and becoming regions?
There's no chance. The CVC will want a return on their investment. Destroying the club system with decades of rivalry which is a guaranteed draw to attempt a regional system which may well have limited to no buy in is very high risk and unlikely to see that ROI. The Irish system works because the provinces were long established and the rivalry ingrained, the Welsh system is the opposite and is failing.

I think it's more likely that CVC will want pre season tours to go to international venues like the States, Asia etc to try and garner support from the international stage. We're already seeing the Premiership showcase event on free to air, more promotional stuff and exposing is very likely.
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Scott1 »

sam16111986 wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:15 pm
wigworth wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:03 pm I'm not quite sure why you think regionalised teams are next, has there has ever been any serious mention of English clubs disbanding and becoming regions?
There's no chance. The CVC will want a return on their investment. Destroying the club system with decades of rivalry which is a guaranteed draw to attempt a regional system which may well have limited to no buy in is very high risk and unlikely to see that ROI. The Irish system works because the provinces were long established and the rivalry ingrained, the Welsh system is the opposite and is failing.

I think it's more likely that CVC will want pre season tours to go to international venues like the States, Asia etc to try and garner support from the international stage. We're already seeing the Premiership showcase event on free to air, more promotional stuff and exposing is very likely.
Wasn't there talk about an extra game being added or did Sarries play in America? Something like that
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Old Hob »

Apart from the additional expense to clubs and supporters, the main worry for me is the direction of travel. CVC want to grow the game. The game has already undergone a lot of change in the last 30 years and if the US market is to be tackled then more may be required. The US only becomes viable with TV money and the US TV broadcasters are very well used to imposing their will on sports that they give large sums to. So what law changes will be demanded? Frequent breaks for adverts? The decision makers at the top of the game will no doubt enjoy their free first class travel to these events and the gulf between the clubs, the public will grow larger. The chasm between the survivors in the Premiership and the Championship will be uncrossable.
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by ay2oh »

Will there be more money available for the clubs otherwise how will Tigers be able to afford to take 30:players + staff to SA ?
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Re: European finals weekend - May 2022

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

Matches in SA could become a joke with 2nd XVs going down from Europe, unfortunately the chasing of money trumps common sense.
As a side effect SA sides might be able to afford higher wages...less SA players available to flood the NH player pool.
To win is not as important as playing with style!
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