7s ethics?

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Old Hob
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Old Hob »

LE18 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:38 pm Ok, so why didn't Ref penalise him? Anyway no matter what I think both Argentina and England are out.
A weak referee is irrelevant. There was a conspiracy to, basically, cheat. End of.
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Tigerbeat
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Tigerbeat »

Old Hob wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:57 pm
LE18 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:38 pm Ok, so why didn't Ref penalise him? Anyway no matter what I think both Argentina and England are out.
A weak referee is irrelevant. There was a conspiracy to, basically, cheat. End of.
The laws were not broken so cannot be seen as cheating. Argentina needed to win and England needed to maintain the points difference to qualify. The Argentinians gave up the chase and England slowed down and then stopped and waited till they were challenged…no laws broken. The loophole in the laws was exploited and guess that this will be closed….not often that this situation occurs.
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mightymouse
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by mightymouse »

It’s cheating the paying public .. I hope they were roundly booed by the crowd .. I certainly would have given them some stick if I had been there.
Tigers86asw
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Tigers86asw »

It’s the equivalent of Austria vs West Germany and the under arm ball in cricket. It’s about ethics versus the law- you can’t enforce it if it is as matter of ethics.

Personally I think it damages the spirit of the game. There is no honour in it.
bendy
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by bendy »

Tigers86asw wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:24 am
Personally I think it damages the spirit of the game. There is no honour in it.
There's no other opinion than this, surely.

Any mealy-mouthed "well, technically under law 17 sub section B point 15 the player was within his rights..." nonsense is a very slippery slope to "well why shouldn't he dive for a penalty?" and so on.
Tiglon
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Tiglon »

Time wasting is foul play. Behaviour against the spirit of good sportsmanship is foul play. That's not my opinion, it is the laws of rugby...

Foul play is against the laws and therefore can and should be penalised. There are no loopholes.
Pellsey
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Pellsey »

Who do you penalise though? The team not putting the ball down or the team not tackling?! Although this definitely can be seen as being against the spirit of the game, I'm not sure you can just penalise the person not putting the ball down, as the defending team would also have a "duty" to tackle, right!?
RagingBull
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by RagingBull »

What is the spirit of good sportsmanship?
Pellsey
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Pellsey »

RagingBull wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:17 am What is the spirit of good sportsmanship?
It's something we had until professionalism started.
jgriffin
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by jgriffin »

I think everyone is getting their knickers in a twist. It's not a million miles away from Italy vs England and the non-engagement at rucks mayhem. It will be a one-off, and a question in Question of Sport in a couple of years. :smt004
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by chris111 »

jgriffin wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:18 am I think everyone is getting their knickers in a twist. It's not a million miles away from Italy vs England and the non-engagement at rucks mayhem. It will be a one-off, and a question in Question of Sport in a couple of years. :smt004
I think it was very different from the ruck non-engagement tactic, but was effectively match fixing. As Tiglon has already pointed out, unsporting conduct is covered by Law 9, so is foul play. The referee could and should have acted - firstly by stopping the clock until players resumed the game. If they refused to do so, red card all 14, abandon the match and leave it to the authorities to deal with!
Rugbygramps
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Rugbygramps »

Simples dimples quick law change across all formats of rugby that as soon as the player has reached the most advantageous position to put the ball down they do so. Might stop some of these dodgy in goal area challenges as well
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by ads »

Thing is did it just happen or did they discuss it? If it just happened, it cant be match fixing as they're just taking advantage of a situation that has unfolded. Not right, imo, but certainly not a fix.
Tiglon
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by Tiglon »

Who to penalise? I'd suggest the ref runs over to both head coaches and tells them if the players refuse to play then he will treat it as match abandoned.

What is sportsmanship? Well England Rugby's thoughts on it are:

SPORTSMANSHIP
Sportsmanship is the foundation upon which rugby union is built. We uphold the rugby tradition of camaraderie with teammates and opposition. We observe fair play both on and off the pitch and are generous in victory and dignified in defeat. We play to win but not at all costs and recognise both endeavour and achievement. We ensure that the wellbeing and development of individual players is central to all rugby activity.


Fair play? No.
Dignified in defeat? No.
Play to win? No.

What do World Rugby have to say about integrity?

What are World Rugby’s anti-corruption and betting rules?
World Rugby’s anti-corruption and betting programme derives from World Rugby Regulation 6. Regulation 6 is founded on four principles:

Never bet on Rugby and never ask anyone to bet for you
Never intentionally perform below your best
Never reveal confidential information
Report anything suspicious to [email protected]
You can find Regulation 6 in full here in English, French and Spanish.

The World Rugby Integrity Unit manages the implementation of Regulation 6 including the delivery of education to participants in the Game and the investigation of potential breaches.


The whole point of sport is two teams or individuals competing to win. If one or both sides stop competing, then it isn't sport any more. Sport is all about the contest, the score is just there to put it into context. No contest, no sport.

That's why it bothers me.
jgriffin
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Re: 7s ethics?

Post by jgriffin »

Knickers. Twist. compare and contrast with: Hand of Back. Bag snatching, wage fiddling, cap breaking etc. What's the game coming to? Nothing - a lot cleaner, less Sarries style fiddling (one hopes) :smt015 and if all we have to moan about is that 7s incident..........
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