England Squad for down under

[Scott1]

That’s Quins…he’ll never get that opportunity or space at international level plus the defenders are too good. Farrell has done that for Sarries on numerous occasions, but his hair isn’t flowing and there’s no hitch kick so it doesn’t look at flash ! Smith is a quality player, he’s just got a lot to learn at the highest level. I hope he gets there but he’s not there yet. Defensively he’s nowhere near Farrell.

I do agree that Farrells attacking game has come on leaps and bounds but he's still not on Smiths level. And defensively Farrell is awful mate, goes high and gets bumped most of the time, shoulder boy is a liability! And why the long hair defence mechanism when daring to compare the twos skillset? I've never got that with posters
I don't prefer Smiths attacking play because of his hair,i prefer it because my eyes tell me he can do things that Farrell can only dream of. He's definitely the better out of the 2 going forward,nor even close imo.

Nah, no defence mechanism here matey. The hair was an aside, it wasn’t meant to be a point of difference. I’ll put it this way, Farrell is more workmanlike in his approach where as Smith is easier on the eye, in a rugby sense you understand. This high tackle thing is ridiculous. Farrell has, more than once tackled high but the majority of his shots are fair, it’s just people are looking out for it. It’s not every shot is it let’s be fair about it ! Smith has had the luxury of the best 12 in the league on his shoulder and arguably the form 9 so he’s well protected there. The difference in England when Farrell isn’t there is clear. He’s the leader, listen on the ref mic, you can hear him barking out orders, driving the standards. In the 6 Nations we were woeful and there’s the reason. I won’t sway you Scott I know but I see it, Farrell is ahead of Smith in every aspect of the game at the moment.

Yes you make a good case,he is ahead of Smith bar attacking play. I wouldn't expect any less though when comparing their experience. Farrell has 100 international caps (including The Lions) while Smith has 9 i believe. Farrell has played way more club/European games too. So going by that Smith is ahead for me in his growth as a player,comfortably. We have finished 5th in the 6N with Farrell at 10/12 too.

[westwinds31]

Fair point. I’m desperate for England to do well and if Smith can fire then we’ll be in a good place. I suspect we may see a Smith at 10 and Faz at 12 so we get the best
of both worlds maybe !? I can’t see Manu featuring I’m afraid. He’s broken and chances of getting to France are slim I suspect. So maybe Marchant can make that slot his own.

[Scott1]

Fair point. I’m desperate for England to do well and if Smith can fire then we’ll be in a good place. I suspect we may see a Smith at 10 and Faz at 12 so we get the best
of both worlds maybe !?

Yes,Jones wants to have a MF of Smith, Farrell,Manu

[Tiglon]

With regard to Farrell's high tackling technique, it seems to me that all/most fly halves and scrum halves have been coached to do this. They can't compete physically, they're not likely to win many collisions so it seems that they are instructed to wrap up the ball instead and at least prevent the offload while slowing the ball carrier down and waiting for support.

IMO there are 4 differences with Farrell:

1) he's England captain so he gets more media attention
2) he comes across as a very angry man at times which ties in nicely to the "dangerous tackler" narrative
3) he is taller than the majority of 9's and 10's, so he has to work harder to avoid going too high
4) he's the most competitive man in the world and sometimes can't stop himself being just a bit too aggressive

You'll rarely see Marcus Smith bending to make a tackle, but he's about 20cm shorter than Farrell so there's little danger of him making contact with someone else's head. Same goes for Faf de Klerk etc etc.

[sam16111986]

With regard to Farrell's high tackling technique, it seems to me that all/most fly halves and scrum halves have been coached to do this. They can't compete physically, they're not likely to win many collisions so it seems that they are instructed to wrap up the ball instead and at least prevent the offload while slowing the ball carrier down and waiting for support.

IMO there are 4 differences with Farrell:

1) he's England captain so he gets more media attention
2) he comes across as a very angry man at times which ties in nicely to the "dangerous tackler" narrative
3) he is taller than the majority of 9's and 10's, so he has to work harder to avoid going too high
4) he's the most competitive man in the world and sometimes can't stop himself being just a bit too aggressive

You'll rarely see Marcus Smith bending to make a tackle, but he's about 20cm shorter than Farrell so there's little danger of him making contact with someone else's head. Same goes for Faf de Klerk etc etc.

I'd say a key difference is that most flyhalfs incorporating this style of tackle make submissive hits where as Farrell is far more aggressive and leads with the shoulder. Makes his style of tackle far more risky.

[ay2oh]

Be interesting to see how our 16 stone 6 foot 3 fly half tackles next season

[Scott1]

Be interesting to see how our 16 stone 6 foot 3 fly half tackles next season

[Old Hob]

With regard to Farrell's high tackling technique, it seems to me that all/most fly halves and scrum halves have been coached to do this. They can't compete physically, they're not likely to win many collisions so it seems that they are instructed to wrap up the ball instead and at least prevent the offload while slowing the ball carrier down and waiting for support.

IMO there are 4 differences with Farrell:

1) he's England captain so he gets more media attention
2) he comes across as a very angry man at times which ties in nicely to the "dangerous tackler" narrative
3) he is taller than the majority of 9's and 10's, so he has to work harder to avoid going too high
4) he's the most competitive man in the world and sometimes can't stop himself being just a bit too aggressive

You'll rarely see Marcus Smith bending to make a tackle, but he's about 20cm shorter than Farrell so there's little danger of him making contact with someone else's head. Same goes for Faf de Klerk etc etc.

I'd say a key difference is that most flyhalfs incorporating this style of tackle make submissive hits where as Farrell is far more aggressive and leads with the shoulder. Makes his style of tackle far more risky.

I'd say a key difference is that for a large part of his career he followed through giving cheap shots behind the goal line

[mol2]

The thing with Farrell is he grew op playing rugby as a big lad compared to his peers.

Going for the dominant chest high tackle at youth level easy if you are bigger and stronger than your opponent.

Wind on a year or two and these days all of your opponents are big. So hitting a back row with a chest high tackle is not only likely to see you bumped, there is a risk of head contact under the new laws.

Flawed technique - what worked as a junior for him is a liability in the current game. It has been apparent for a few years and he either can’t or won’t make the technique change required.

[Tiglon]

Sexton tackled exactly the same on Saturday. Shoulder first, aiming at upper body, just like he always does.

Is it actually a flaw that these world class players are unable to fix, and their world class coaches are unable to fix, or is it an intentional and coached technique that Farrell just gets slightly wrong a bit more often than others because his competitiveness sometimes verges on over-aggression?

Farrell isn't the most talented player in the world, not even close, but he's probably up there with the hardest working and most determined to be the best he can be. So it strikes me as very odd that he would be completely unwilling to see or to work on a huge flaw in his game, when the main reason he has been so incredibly successful is his self awareness about his game and his willingness and ability to improve it with training.

I don't know, I'm just offering a different perspective.

[Rugbygramps]

Sexton tackled exactly the same on Saturday. Shoulder first, aiming at upper body, just like he always does.

Is it actually a flaw that these world class players are unable to fix, and their world class coaches are unable to fix, or is it an intentional and coached technique that Farrell just gets slightly wrong a bit more often than others because his competitiveness sometimes verges on over-aggression?

Farrell isn't the most talented player in the world, not even close, but he's probably up there with the hardest working and most determined to be the best he can be. So it strikes me as very odd that he would be completely unwilling to see or to work on a huge flaw in his game, when the main reason he has been so incredibly successful is his self awareness about his game and his willingness and ability to improve it with training.

I don't know, I'm just offering a different perspective.

I just wonder with 10s whether that technique has to be their primary one as quite often they have some hairy back rower running at them straight so in order to have any impact they have to aim at the upper body. I’m sure there are plenty of incidents of him making side on tackles etc.
As an aside how many times has he actually been carded for high tackles, or is this poor technique something that is being propagated by Erasmus and various on line experts

[Scott1]

"Is it actually a flaw that these world class players are unable to fix, and their world class coaches are unable to fix"?
Can't understand snipes like this!

[Scott1]

Sexton tackled exactly the same on Saturday. Shoulder first, aiming at upper body, just like he always does.

Is it actually a flaw that these world class players are unable to fix, and their world class coaches are unable to fix, or is it an intentional and coached technique that Farrell just gets slightly wrong a bit more often than others because his competitiveness sometimes verges on over-aggression?

Farrell isn't the most talented player in the world, not even close, but he's probably up there with the hardest working and most determined to be the best he can be. So it strikes me as very odd that he would be completely unwilling to see or to work on a huge flaw in his game, when the main reason he has been so incredibly successful is his self awareness about his game and his willingness and ability to improve it with training.

I don't know, I'm just offering a different perspective.

I just wonder with 10s whether that technique has to be their primary one as quite often they have some hairy back rower running at them straight so in order to have any impact they have to aim at the upper body. I’m sure there are plenty of incidents of him making side on tackles etc.
As an aside how many times has he actually been carded for high tackles, or is this poor technique something that is being propagated by Erasmus and various on line experts

Yes I think its a bottle thing,I'm not saying they arnt brave, all rugby players are,but there's only a very slim chance of getting hurt going high if you get it wrong ,going low and getting it wrong could be disastrous. And like you said side on tackles arnt dangerous at all either and much easier to pull off. Good post!

[Scott1]

Sexton tackled exactly the same on Saturday. Shoulder first, aiming at upper body, just like he always does.

Is it actually a flaw that these world class players are unable to fix, and their world class coaches are unable to fix, or is it an intentional and coached technique that Farrell just gets slightly wrong a bit more often than others because his competitiveness sometimes verges on over-aggression?

Farrell isn't the most talented player in the world, not even close, but he's probably up there with the hardest working and most determined to be the best he can be. So it strikes me as very odd that he would be completely unwilling to see or to work on a huge flaw in his game, when the main reason he has been so incredibly successful is his self awareness about his game and his willingness and ability to improve it with training.

I don't know, I'm just offering a different perspective.

I just wonder with 10s whether that technique has to be their primary one as quite often they have some hairy back rower running at them straight so in order to have any impact they have to aim at the upper body. I’m sure there are plenty of incidents of him making side on tackles etc.
As an aside how many times has he actually been carded for high tackles, or is this poor technique something that is being propagated by Erasmus and various on line experts

Yes I think its a bottle thing,I'm not saying they arnt brave, all rugby players are,but there's only a very slim chance of getting hurt going high if you get it wrong ,going low and getting it wrong could be disastrous. And like you said side on tackles arnt dangerous at all either and much easier to pull off. Good post!

Bottle is probably wrong,maybe more confidence. Although with Farrell it's definitely technique,he's very poor technically.It’s not a one off with him,it would be very easy to do a compilation of his poor tackling and getting bumped. But you get the jist of my post,you very rarely see textbook front on tackles from SH/FH on bigger players.

[Offside]

The other issue is that the high tackle means the tackler does not go to ground and can recycle themselves out of the ruck ready to be available to play turnover ball. Being pinned at the base of the ruck after a waist high tackle would be a tactical problem. There does seem to be a common 10 tackle technique.