England Squad for down under

[Rugbygramps]

Agree his defence is better but Smiths attacking instinct is different gravy.

Agree to disagree certainly on recent form. The point has been made recently that during his long injury absence he spent a lot of time with the coaches and re evaluating his game. Since his return his attacking game has upped a couple of levels. Maybe not Smiths instinct but the again you could say the same about Carlos Spencer and Dan Carter

[sam16111986]

10 is going to be interesting. Farrell is playing some fantastic rugby at 10 at present and I could see him starting ahead of Smith. If Tuilagi is fit he plays 12 and personally I would like to see Marchant in the 13 shirt. I could see Kelly as the understudy at 12 he is very powerful and has excellent hands as well as being very good defensively.

That doesn't really fit the new unstructured, no defined position attacking game plan. You need someone on their feet calling the shots to organise the attack. Smith grew into that role over the 6N, though it worked best in the brief Ford cameos where the two of them orchestrated things. It also worked best in the AIs when Farrell and Smith combined Vs Australia.

The problem in the 6N seemed to be if Smith was tackled and out of the game then England didn't reorganise the attack very well we stuttered. If we keep playing in this way we need two playmakers so one is always there ordering things, ideally one is ordering things and Smith is freed up to do his ball in hand magic. Slade didn't look up to the task in the 6N sadly. Can't see Manu at 12 organising the attacking line and Marchant didn't in the 6N either. Unless a playmaker is swapped in to either wing or 15 or England drop the intentional lack of structure and go to a more conventional attack but that is unlikely.

Hear what you’re saying Sam but let’s face it that didn’t work. For me there are 2 options. If he persists with Smith at 10 he has to build the same attacking shape around him he has at Quins, so Dombrandt at 8 a nippy 9, possibly Randall, and a 12 who will run through Brick walls, Tuilagi. Big problem for me is he he builds this shape what happens if Smith gets injured who goes to 10. Rightly or wrongly Farrell is Jones captain so he plays shoehorning him in at 12 next to me just doesn’t work. Best of playing him at 10 Smith on the bench and if necessary move Farrell to 12 later in the game.
IMHO if England go with a midfield of Smith Farrell Tuilagi they won’t get past the quarter finals of RWC

You should never build a rugby team around one player. If you look at the dominant teams they had a system and players slot in as they are required. Leinster have done it so well at club level, Borthwick has brought it in for us (not quite at Leinster's level but there's multiple reasons for that). Eddie will be doing the same thing with the national team. You build an ethos and a style of play and then you select the players to accomplish that.

In theory the Eddie tactics should give Smith a lot of time on the ball as the unpredictability of the changing attacking structure makes it difficult for the defence to commit and rush up. That might just work better with someone to help him organise.

[Scott1]

Agree his defence is better but Smiths attacking instinct is different gravy.

Yes,look at that dummy and length of the field Quins try v Montpellier that started with Smith in his own 22. Farrells never pulling that off! #levels

[Offside]

Question is against the AllBlacks does he get buried in his own 22, turnover ball and try to them?
Getting back to Tigers players. We have stepped up in opposition since Kelly got injured but we do seem to be missing something in defence. Cannot fault Porters effort and he is becoming more familiar with inside centre but I think his defence is not yet the same level. I do not think Ashtons is compared to Potter or Porter either. Flying out of the line like Faf De Klerk works if you are not leaving a hole. Dad does it from behind a spaced out defence. Plenty to work on fo Sir Kev.

[Tiglon]

Question is against the AllBlacks does he get buried in his own 22, turnover ball and try to them?
Getting back to Tigers players. We have stepped up in opposition since Kelly got injured but we do seem to be missing something in defence. Cannot fault Porters effort and he is becoming more familiar with inside centre but I think his defence is not yet the same level. I do not think Ashtons is compared to Potter or Porter either. Flying out of the line like Faf De Klerk works if you are not leaving a hole. Dad does it from behind a spaced out defence. Plenty to work on fo Sir Kev.

Really good point/question re Smith, I think that is the risk with him.

Your dad sounds like a good defender

[Scott1]

Question is against the AllBlacks does he get buried in his own 22, turnover ball and try to them?
Getting back to Tigers players. We have stepped up in opposition since Kelly got injured but we do seem to be missing something in defence. Cannot fault Porters effort and he is becoming more familiar with inside centre but I think his defence is not yet the same level. I do not think Ashtons is compared to Potter or Porter either. Flying out of the line like Faf De Klerk works if you are not leaving a hole. Dad does it from behind a spaced out defence. Plenty to work on fo Sir Kev.

Does Farrell kick instead and get charged down?

[Scott1]

SA v NZ at Twickenham next year with England to play on the same day,nice!

[westwinds31]

Agree his defence is better but Smiths attacking instinct is different gravy.

Yes,look at that dummy and length of the field Quins try v Montpellier that started with Smith in his own 22. Farrells never pulling that off! #levels

That’s Quins…he’ll never get that opportunity or space at international level plus the defenders are too good. Farrell has done that for Sarries on numerous occasions, but his hair isn’t flowing and there’s no hitch kick so it doesn’t look at flash ! Smith is a quality player, he’s just got a lot to learn at the highest level. I hope he gets there but he’s not there yet. Defensively he’s nowhere near Farrell.

[Scott1]

Agree his defence is better but Smiths attacking instinct is different gravy.

Yes,look at that dummy and length of the field Quins try v Montpellier that started with Smith in his own 22. Farrells never pulling that off! #levels

That’s Quins…he’ll never get that opportunity or space at international level plus the defenders are too good. Farrell has done that for Sarries on numerous occasions, but his hair isn’t flowing and there’s no hitch kick so it doesn’t look at flash ! Smith is a quality player, he’s just got a lot to learn at the highest level. I hope he gets there but he’s not there yet. Defensively he’s nowhere near Farrell.

I do agree that Farrells attacking game has come on leaps and bounds but he's still not on Smiths level. And defensively Farrell is awful mate, goes high and gets bumped most of the time, shoulder boy is a liability! And why the long hair defence mechanism when daring to compare the twos skillset? I've never got that with posters
I don't prefer Smiths attacking play because of his hair,i prefer it because my eyes tell me he can do things that Farrell can only dream of. He's definitely the better out of the 2 going forward,nor even close imo.

[Scott1]

And I don't think we can compare them in the England shirt yet,Farrell has nearly 100 caps Smith is new to International rugby.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

For me at present Smith is overrated by certain sections of the media & fans, think Cipriani of years past, plenty of potential but without a more "liberated" England HC he won't be able to play to his strengths.
At present, however much it pains to say it, Farrell fits EJs natural style better.
It would of been interesting to see England play with Ford at 10 in the form he was in pre Xmas, without Farrell in the side.

[Scott1]

For me at present Smith is overrated by certain sections of the media & fans, think Cipriani of years past, plenty of potential but without a more "liberated" England HC he won't be able to play to his strengths.
At present, however much it pains to say it, Farrell fits EJs natural style better.
It would of been interesting to see England play with Ford at 10 in the form he was in pre Xmas, without Farrell in the side.

Yes,I always wanted to see Ford,Slade,Manu

[Tiglon]

For me at present Smith is overrated by certain sections of the media & fans, think Cipriani of years past, plenty of potential but without a more "liberated" England HC he won't be able to play to his strengths.
At present, however much it pains to say it, Farrell fits EJs natural style better.
It would of been interesting to see England play with Ford at 10 in the form he was in pre Xmas, without Farrell in the side.

I think you're right for now, but slightly unfair comparing Smith to Cipriani. Yes, Smith has the flair, but he is 100% more committed in defence than Cipriani ever has been and has shown he is prepared to play to a script. His game management is improving all the time and there's no reason why he can't, eventually, be a better player than Farrell. For me he's a bit like Cipriani but much stronger mentally and far more coachable. He has the potential to blend the best of Cipriani and the best of Farrell, if he stays focused.

[ay2oh]

Agree his defence is better but Smiths attacking instinct is different gravy.

Yes,look at that dummy and length of the field Quins try v Montpellier that started with Smith in his own 22. Farrells never pulling that off! #levels

That’s Quins…he’ll never get that opportunity or space at international level plus the defenders are too good. Farrell has done that for Sarries on numerous occasions, but his hair isn’t flowing and there’s no hitch kick so it doesn’t look at flash ! Smith is a quality player, he’s just got a lot to learn at the highest level. I hope he gets there but he’s not there yet. Defensively he’s nowhere near Farrell.

I’ve never seen Farrell do anything resembling what Smith can do in attack. Just to clarify I’m not a Farrell hater just think smith is defo worth persisting with if he is picked with some decent centres.

[westwinds31]

Yes,look at that dummy and length of the field Quins try v Montpellier that started with Smith in his own 22. Farrells never pulling that off! #levels

That’s Quins…he’ll never get that opportunity or space at international level plus the defenders are too good. Farrell has done that for Sarries on numerous occasions, but his hair isn’t flowing and there’s no hitch kick so it doesn’t look at flash ! Smith is a quality player, he’s just got a lot to learn at the highest level. I hope he gets there but he’s not there yet. Defensively he’s nowhere near Farrell.

I do agree that Farrells attacking game has come on leaps and bounds but he's still not on Smiths level. And defensively Farrell is awful mate, goes high and gets bumped most of the time, shoulder boy is a liability! And why the long hair defence mechanism when daring to compare the twos skillset? I've never got that with posters
I don't prefer Smiths attacking play because of his hair,i prefer it because my eyes tell me he can do things that Farrell can only dream of. He's definitely the better out of the 2 going forward,nor even close imo.

Nah, no defence mechanism here matey. The hair was an aside, it wasn’t meant to be a point of difference. I’ll put it this way, Farrell is more workmanlike in his approach where as Smith is easier on the eye, in a rugby sense you understand. This high tackle thing is ridiculous. Farrell has, more than once tackled high but the majority of his shots are fair, it’s just people are looking out for it. It’s not every shot is it let’s be fair about it ! Smith has had the luxury of the best 12 in the league on his shoulder and arguably the form 9 so he’s well protected there. The difference in England when Farrell isn’t there is clear. He’s the leader, listen on the ref mic, you can hear him barking out orders, driving the standards. In the 6 Nations we were woeful and there’s the reason. I won’t sway you Scott I know but I see it, Farrell is ahead of Smith in every aspect of the game at the moment.