Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

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longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by longlivethecrumbie »

This has been done and re-done by Ruck for a while. Most of the players are static but I do remember seeing one previously from them with different players in there.
ay2oh
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by ay2oh »

Owen Farrell anyone :smt003
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by Scott1 »

ay2oh wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 10:22 am Owen Farrell anyone :smt003
At 10 and 12 😂
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by mol2 »

Tiglon wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 12:47 am Parisse is overrated. Not saying he isn't a good player, but when a number 8 is being praised for losing his team a match by trying to kick a drop goal in the final play, you know there's no correlation between performance and pundits' opinions.
We had an international fly half who wouldn't take drop goals so perhaps the same applied and he felt he ought to have a go!
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by Scott1 »

Parisse overrated? Hahahahahaha
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by mightymouse »

I disagree with a few of those but the one that stands out is Parisse .. if anything he was underrated not overrated.. Brilliant player and if he had played for almost any other nation he would have been considered a legend of the game.
. I can certainly agree with a few namely Jenkins and Henson but I could add a few too, like Biggar, Vicery, Alan WynnJones, o’Gara,
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by Tiglon »

Pretty sure Parisse is already considered a legend. If you Google him...

1st result, "Parisse is widely considered one of the greatest number eights to play the game in the modern era and the greatest Italian rugby player of all time".

2nd result, "Sergio Parisse: Legendary Italy number 8".

3rd result, "Italy's legendary captain Sergio Parisse".

4th result, "Italy legend Parisse".

I appreciate not many will agree with my view that he is overrated (that's kind of the whole point of considering someone to be overrated), but surely he cannot be underrated when he's considered one of the greatest of the modern era and consistently described as a legend? :smt017

This is half the issue for me, everyone thinks that he is the "underdog" because he played for Italy and IMHO tends to get judged against lower standards because he never played for a more successful nation. It's almost not allowed to criticise him, whereas if he was an All Black or an England player he would have had countless critics for various aspects of his game and decision making.
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by mightymouse »

I don’t think we compared him favourably because he looked good next to his poor colleagues, it was because he did extraordinary things almost single handedly! ..except with a little help from Castro for some of his career!
I think had he played for England or NZ for example all that talent in addition to an existing good team would have seen him be a great winner rather than a plucky loser.
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by ay2oh »

Tiglon wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:06 am Pretty sure Parisse is already considered a legend. If you Google him...

1st result, "Parisse is widely considered one of the greatest number eights to play the game in the modern era and the greatest Italian rugby player of all time".

2nd result, "Sergio Parisse: Legendary Italy number 8".

3rd result, "Italy's legendary captain Sergio Parisse".

4th result, "Italy legend Parisse".

I appreciate not many will agree with my view that he is overrated (that's kind of the whole point of considering someone to be overrated), but surely he cannot be underrated when he's considered one of the greatest of the modern era and consistently described as a legend? :smt017

This is half the issue for me, everyone thinks that he is the "underdog" because he played for Italy and IMHO tends to get judged against lower standards because he never played for a more successful nation. It's almost not allowed to criticise him, whereas if he was an All Black or an England player he would have had countless critics for various aspects of his game and decision making.
As far as I can see no-one else on here thinks he is over-rated so that says it all.
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by Tiglon »

ay2oh wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:27 am
Tiglon wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:06 am Pretty sure Parisse is already considered a legend. If you Google him...

1st result, "Parisse is widely considered one of the greatest number eights to play the game in the modern era and the greatest Italian rugby player of all time".

2nd result, "Sergio Parisse: Legendary Italy number 8".

3rd result, "Italy's legendary captain Sergio Parisse".

4th result, "Italy legend Parisse".

I appreciate not many will agree with my view that he is overrated (that's kind of the whole point of considering someone to be overrated), but surely he cannot be underrated when he's considered one of the greatest of the modern era and consistently described as a legend? :smt017

This is half the issue for me, everyone thinks that he is the "underdog" because he played for Italy and IMHO tends to get judged against lower standards because he never played for a more successful nation. It's almost not allowed to criticise him, whereas if he was an All Black or an England player he would have had countless critics for various aspects of his game and decision making.
As far as I can see no-one else on here thinks he is over-rated so that says it all.
If everyone agreed with me then he wouldn't be overrated, would he? The first criteria of believing someone to be overrated is that most other people think he's better than you do :smt001
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by mightymouse »

By the way .. although I do not take google as gospel, I do take your point about that. I hadn’t looked at it that way.
I was taking my idea of ratings from TV pundits shows. For example I once watched one such show where they discussed The greatest ever World XV .. I couldn’t believe my ears when then said they found it hard to consider someone who had not won a World Cup!!
It seemed reduce all of world rugby’s “greatness” to a very small pool of countries and time period.
What no Graham Price, or Mike Gibson or Gordon Brown discussed because the played prior to the World Cup or no Castro, ODriscol or Hastings because they happed to play in weaker team
Hardly fair?
Overrated players in my view invariably come from teams which are good but individuals within that team look better than they are because they get carried. It explains much Lions selection over the years, Were certain countries get massively over represented.
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by Tiglon »

mightymouse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:38 am By the way .. although I do not take google as gospel, I do take your point about that. I hadn’t looked at it that way.
I was taking my idea of ratings from TV pundits shows. For example I once watched one such show where they discussed The greatest ever World XV .. I couldn’t believe my ears when then said they found it hard to consider someone who had not won a World Cup!!
It seemed reduce all of world rugby’s “greatness” to a very small pool of countries and time period.
What no Graham Price, or Mike Gibson or Gordon Brown discussed because the played prior to the World Cup or no Castro, ODriscol or Hastings because they happed to play in weaker team
Hardly fair?
Overrated players in my view invariably come from teams which are good but individuals within that team look better than they are because they get carried. It explains much Lions selection over the years, Were certain countries get massively over represented.
That's a very good point, everyone has different criteria for rating players, particularly when it comes to "all time" conversations. For me it's an interesting conversation, rather than an "I'm right, you're wrong" situation.
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by Scott1 »

Easiest thing to do with a player is ask whether he would be considered for a World XV at any point. Parisse has,on more than one occasion!
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by OakhamTiger32 »

The whole concept of over rated players is an interesting one.. certainly if you look at value for money and compare Radradra with say Porter I know which one I would have at my club...

It's not really a fair comparison as Bristol have been pretty woeful this season and Tigers have been flying but if you compare the 2 players:

Radradra (age 29) - Played 16 matches (1077 minutes) 4 tries (1 try every 4 matches), 2 yellow cards
Occupied positions by Semi on start team :
Center : 77 times ( Outside Centre 76%, Inside Centre 4% )
Winger : 19 times ( Left Wing 20% )

Porter (age 25) - Played 22 matches (1240 minutes) 7 tries (almost 1 try every 3 matches), 1 (harsh) red card
Occupied positions by Guy on start team :
Center : 16 times ( Outside Centre 41%, Inside Centre 14% )
Winger : 13 times ( Left Wing 24%, Right Wing 21% )

Porter is much cheaper, younger, more versatile and has a better try scoring record.. yet whenever Radradra gets the ball the BT commentators nearly wet themselves.. he is a quality player for sure but is he worth the amount they will be paying him when you could likely have Porter, Potter, Scott, Saumaki for about the same salary bill..

I guess one person's definition of over rated is different to another.. for me over rated players are big name players who come in and fail to deliver.. Radradra has been one of those players for me.
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Re: Ruck post 'Most Overrated' team

Post by Dokie »

OakhamTiger32 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm The whole concept of over rated players is an interesting one.. certainly if you look at value for money and compare Radradra with say Porter I know which one I would have at my club...

It's not really a fair comparison as Bristol have been pretty woeful this season and Tigers have been flying but if you compare the 2 players:

Radradra (age 29) - Played 16 matches (1077 minutes) 4 tries (1 try every 4 matches), 2 yellow cards
Occupied positions by Semi on start team :
Center : 77 times ( Outside Centre 76%, Inside Centre 4% )
Winger : 19 times ( Left Wing 20% )

Porter (age 25) - Played 22 matches (1240 minutes) 7 tries (almost 1 try every 3 matches), 1 (harsh) red card
Occupied positions by Guy on start team :
Center : 16 times ( Outside Centre 41%, Inside Centre 14% )
Winger : 13 times ( Left Wing 24%, Right Wing 21% )

Porter is much cheaper, younger, more versatile and has a better try scoring record.. yet whenever Radradra gets the ball the BT commentators nearly wet themselves.. he is a quality player for sure but is he worth the amount they will be paying him when you could likely have Porter, Potter, Scott, Saumaki for about the same salary bill..

I guess one person's definition of over rated is different to another.. for me over rated players are big name players who come in and fail to deliver.. Radradra has been one of those players for me.
Really valid argument
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