Steve Borthwick and red cards
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
I don't know if this will work......but if it does.....enjoy.
https://twitter.com/RedLeics/status/151 ... GDGEA&s=08
...I guess I do belong in the stone age!
https://twitter.com/RedLeics/status/151 ... GDGEA&s=08
...I guess I do belong in the stone age!
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Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
That was very well-handled. Imagine what a tmo would have had to say today!Big Dai wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:30 pm I don't know if this will work......but if it does.....enjoy.
https://twitter.com/RedLeics/status/151 ... GDGEA&s=08
...I guess I do belong in the stone age!
Semper in excretia
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
Hmm, not quite sure I'm in agreement with you. When I was coaching mini and junior rugby and we moved from tag to contact, the tackle drills were aimed to always go low, with well used instructions to keep the head away from being hit. Typically "cheek (face) to cheek (bum)" and "what smells (nose) to what smells (bum)".
The kids had this coached into them and the only time they had problems was when playing other clubs in matches or tournaments, where the kids hadn't been as well coached.
Tackling low, below the waist, is more effective at stopping forward movement than tackling high, above the waist.
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
Didn’t some of the influence on higher tackle heights come from Rugby League where the tackle technique developed to try and stop the offload?
As the likes of Larder and Edwards and others came across to Union in the early 2000s it seemed tackle heights got higher thereon.
Now we have to erase the past 20+ years which must be hard for players that will have been told and coached and practiced since they were kids (maybe teenagers) that a tackle should also stop an offload (ie target the man and ball)
As the likes of Larder and Edwards and others came across to Union in the early 2000s it seemed tackle heights got higher thereon.
Now we have to erase the past 20+ years which must be hard for players that will have been told and coached and practiced since they were kids (maybe teenagers) that a tackle should also stop an offload (ie target the man and ball)
Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
This is, of course, completely true. But equally, tackling high (around the chest), is far more effective at stopping offloads. So horses for courses. Both types are needed IMO.WirralExile wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:31 amTackling low, below the waist, is more effective at stopping forward movement than tackling high, above the waist.
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
As mentioned earlier in the thread, change the stupid maul law. The attacking team gets the scrum if it becomes unplayable. Maybe go as far to say the ball cannot be ripped in the tackle.
See the change almost immediately.
See the change almost immediately.
Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
My son was coached cheek to cheek tackling in junior rugby league*, as recently as 3 years ago, so it's not totally a league thing. Tackling high is to stop offloads as has been stated, and also to aid the choke tackle and keep the player off the ground.
*I live in Leeds so its League all the way in most schools. No touch or tag, full on tackling from 7 years old.
The Porter red card/ban was a joke to me, but I can see how the Chessum one was given even if he did glance the shoulder first. We've seen them given plenty of times before. No malice just didn't get down low enough and the other player dipped a bit as well. Unfortunate but thats what they're trying to stop. Don't think either deserve a further ban.
As for Borthwicks views, coaches can't really state their actual opinion, so I'll take it with a pinch of salt.
*I live in Leeds so its League all the way in most schools. No touch or tag, full on tackling from 7 years old.
The Porter red card/ban was a joke to me, but I can see how the Chessum one was given even if he did glance the shoulder first. We've seen them given plenty of times before. No malice just didn't get down low enough and the other player dipped a bit as well. Unfortunate but thats what they're trying to stop. Don't think either deserve a further ban.
As for Borthwicks views, coaches can't really state their actual opinion, so I'll take it with a pinch of salt.
Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
I was taught to play rugby at the age of 11 at boarding school 1960. The tackle technique, if you could call it that, was to tackle around the hips with head on the right side, squeeze and slide your arms down the legs. Used this technique in my playing days in the RAF and I never got really hurt in the process. The tackled player went down very quickly, often with the attempted off-load going to ground or not making it to the next player. The only time my head got hurt was by the occasional punch or elbow. If the plan is to make the game more entertaining then waist-high tackles only would open up the game more speed etc. The down side is the the fat boys up front would need a bit of speed training to get to the eventual breakdown.WirralExile wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:31 amHmm, not quite sure I'm in agreement with you. When I was coaching mini and junior rugby and we moved from tag to contact, the tackle drills were aimed to always go low, with well used instructions to keep the head away from being hit. Typically "cheek (face) to cheek (bum)" and "what smells (nose) to what smells (bum)".
The kids had this coached into them and the only time they had problems was when playing other clubs in matches or tournaments, where the kids hadn't been as well coached.
Tackling low, below the waist, is more effective at stopping forward movement than tackling high, above the waist.
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
The way to sort this out (as with many of the game’s problems) is to apply the existing laws properly: after the maul is formed the defending team rapidly collapses it to get the put in at the scrum. Penalty to the attacking team.Hot_Charlie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:20 am As mentioned earlier in the thread, change the stupid maul law. The attacking team gets the scrum if it becomes unplayable. Maybe go as far to say the ball cannot be ripped in the tackle.
See the change almost immediately.
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
If the maul is collapsed by the defending team give the penalty!No6_Flanker wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:52 pmThe way to sort this out (as with many of the game’s problems) is to apply the existing laws properly: after the maul is formed the defending team rapidly collapses it to get the put in at the scrum. Penalty to the attacking team.Hot_Charlie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:20 am As mentioned earlier in the thread, change the stupid maul law. The attacking team gets the scrum if it becomes unplayable. Maybe go as far to say the ball cannot be ripped in the tackle.
See the change almost immediately.
I find it hard to believe the number of "choke tackles" that start to rumble, go 10-15m and then mysteriously fall over only for the referees to ignore the laws of a rolling maul
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
This is brilliant.. I like it when the ref starts getting some back chat and simply says "shut up"Robespierre wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:39 pmThat was very well-handled. Imagine what a tmo would have had to say today!Big Dai wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:30 pm I don't know if this will work......but if it does.....enjoy.
https://twitter.com/RedLeics/status/151 ... GDGEA&s=08
...I guess I do belong in the stone age!
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who is enjoying steady progression back towards the good old days!
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
I imagine now it would go something like this:Robespierre wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:39 pmThat was very well-handled. Imagine what a tmo would have had to say today!Big Dai wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:30 pm I don't know if this will work......but if it does.....enjoy.
https://twitter.com/RedLeics/status/151 ... GDGEA&s=08
...I guess I do belong in the stone age!
Healey - They need to check that, he could be in trouble here, yep, they need to check that
Dallaglio - Bath just look so strong don't they, they might be a bit unlucky here but I think it's Jonno who starts all that
CMK - Kitty.. Kitty... are you there.. I've not no angle on that, I didn't see anything so do you have anything to add?
Kitt - Let me just have a look... hmmmm.. nope, can't seem to find a good angle on it so suggest play on
CMK - For me, Jonno has Webster by the collar and is instigating the whole scuffle so I'm going to restart with a penalty against Leicester.. Kitty anything to add... Kitty...
Dallaglio - Got that about right for me
Healey - That is ridiculous, how is that not a card for Jonno? They've got away with one there
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who is enjoying steady progression back towards the good old days!
Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
I just did that in my head with their voicesOakhamTiger32 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:38 pmI imagine now it would go something like this:Robespierre wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:39 pmThat was very well-handled. Imagine what a tmo would have had to say today!Big Dai wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:30 pm I don't know if this will work......but if it does.....enjoy.
https://twitter.com/RedLeics/status/151 ... GDGEA&s=08
...I guess I do belong in the stone age!
Healey - They need to check that, he could be in trouble here, yep, they need to check that
Dallaglio - Bath just look so strong don't they, they might be a bit unlucky here but I think it's Jonno who starts all that
CMK - Kitty.. Kitty... are you there.. I've not no angle on that, I didn't see anything so do you have anything to add?
Kitt - Let me just have a look... hmmmm.. nope, can't seem to find a good angle on it so suggest play on
CMK - For me, Jonno has Webster by the collar and is instigating the whole scuffle so I'm going to restart with a penalty against Leicester.. Kitty anything to add... Kitty...
Dallaglio - Got that about right for me
Healey - That is ridiculous, how is that not a card for Jonno? They've got away with one there
Spot on that
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
Love it.......time to practice on these whilst in my "safeguarding" training session.Scott1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:47 pmI just did that in my head with their voicesOakhamTiger32 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:38 pmI imagine now it would go something like this:Robespierre wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:39 pm
That was very well-handled. Imagine what a tmo would have had to say today!
Healey - They need to check that, he could be in trouble here, yep, they need to check that
Dallaglio - Bath just look so strong don't they, they might be a bit unlucky here but I think it's Jonno who starts all that
CMK - Kitty.. Kitty... are you there.. I've not no angle on that, I didn't see anything so do you have anything to add?
Kitt - Let me just have a look... hmmmm.. nope, can't seem to find a good angle on it so suggest play on
CMK - For me, Jonno has Webster by the collar and is instigating the whole scuffle so I'm going to restart with a penalty against Leicester.. Kitty anything to add... Kitty...
Dallaglio - Got that about right for me
Healey - That is ridiculous, how is that not a card for Jonno? They've got away with one there
Spot on that
https://www.ruck.co.uk/just-a-penalty-5 ... ld-fights/
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
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Re: Steve Borthwick and red cards
All relatively harmless except treading on the throat, which is downright reckless and would cop a lengthy ban today.Big Dai wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:56 pmLove it.......time to practice on these whilst in my "safeguarding" training session.Scott1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:47 pmI just did that in my head with their voicesOakhamTiger32 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:38 pm
I imagine now it would go something like this:
Healey - They need to check that, he could be in trouble here, yep, they need to check that
Dallaglio - Bath just look so strong don't they, they might be a bit unlucky here but I think it's Jonno who starts all that
CMK - Kitty.. Kitty... are you there.. I've not no angle on that, I didn't see anything so do you have anything to add?
Kitt - Let me just have a look... hmmmm.. nope, can't seem to find a good angle on it so suggest play on
CMK - For me, Jonno has Webster by the collar and is instigating the whole scuffle so I'm going to restart with a penalty against Leicester.. Kitty anything to add... Kitty...
Dallaglio - Got that about right for me
Healey - That is ridiculous, how is that not a card for Jonno? They've got away with one there
Spot on that
https://www.ruck.co.uk/just-a-penalty-5 ... ld-fights/
Semper in excretia