Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

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fortysix
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by fortysix »

Pity we had to play Leinster in the QF, but there you go. their backs were just a different class.on the day. And the referee , omg..
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by RagingBull »

TMC wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 11:39 am

As lots of people have noted, Leinster have developed the vast majority of their squad. Ala’alatoa, Lowe and Gibson -Park are the only imports from outside of Ireland, Henshaw from Connacht. We have one non Irish qualified player in Ala’alatoa. The game here is organised for the benefit of the national team, with 200 +/- professional rugby players, that's the only way the national team can remain competitive. Leinster also finished the game with an academy player on the pitch in McCarthy – he’ll move to a salary of €40K in the Leinster system next year when he graduates from the academy. Do the maths and the figures show there is not much difference in playing budgets and anyone thinking of blaming the cheque book as an excuse is IMHO grasping at straws. Leinster’s success is based on their academy/schools system and developing from within, not on a massive cheque book or a sugar daddy with more money than sense. Leicester have started that process but it takes time.

I didn’t post it previously when talking about Leicester's influence on Leinster but you guys also offloaded MOC to us - maybe now that can be forgiven :smt002

Best of luck for the rest of the season
The whole comment was very interesting but I'll just want to point one issue Tigers have with this process that an irish team doesn't have reality is unless a player is massively blocked in the process Leinster know they have players for the whole of their career or at least the majority of it.

The trouble Tigers will have is we don't have that guarantee nothing stopping Bath offering Chessum for example 50K more to play for them instead really on the whole we have to be pretty picky with who we focus our money and time on because spread it too thin and all we will get is more players being picked up by rival clubs. Now this is more a short sighted PRL problem and it's self inflicted.
Leinster can play 65 players in the season we do that reality is any youngsters who preforms in the wider squad will be lured by other prem teams.

Look at Harlequins Tizard is a massive talent, signed to Sarries despite not really having any major locks blocking him. Would never happen in Ireland.

But it is more a self inflicting PRL issue, since cap exemption for academy players would solve most of it.
Last edited by RagingBull on Mon May 09, 2022 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tiglon
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by Tiglon »

RagingBull wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:37 pm Look at Harlequins Tizard is a massive talent, signed to Sarries despite not really having any major locks blocking him. Would never happen in Ireland.
It might if he played for Connacht :smt003
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by TMC »

[/quote]

The whole comment was very interesting but I'll just want to point one issue Tigers have with this process that an irish team doesn't have reality is unless a player is massively blocked in the process Leinster know they have players for the whole of their career or at least the majority of it.

The trouble Tigers will have is we don't have that guarantee nothing stopping Bath offering Chessum for example 50K more to play for them instead really on the whole we have to be pretty picky with who we focus our money and time on because spread it too thin and all we will get is more players being picked up by rival clubs. Now this is more a short sighted PRL problem and it's self inflicted.
Leinster can play 65 players in the season we do that reality is any youngsters who preforms in the wider squad will be lured by other prem teams.
[/quote]

They are lured away here too, in fact its part of the DOR's brief.

Most Leinster fans have a pretty low opinion of David Nucifora as he is the man responsible for redistributing the talent at the national level. Leinster’s established / academy / young players are regularly “encouraged” to move by the IRFU. If you look at who has come through Leinster’s ranks and where they are now its pretty instructive. Sure I am missing a few of this, Connacht currently have Gavin Thornbury, Jack Aungier, Tom Daly, Oisin Dowling, Tom Farrell, they’ve recently singed Josh Murphy, Adam Byrne, Peter Dooley and David Hawkshaw for next season; Ulster have Jodri Murphy, Jack McGrath, Nick Timoney, Marty Moore, Ian Madigan, Alan O’Connor, David O’Connor, John Cooney with a few others who came through the Leinster schools system; Munster have Andrew Conway, Joey Carbery, Tadhg Beirne, Jeremy Loughman, Roman Salanoa and Rowan Osbourne. In addition they are ex Leinster guys playing in England like Brian Byrne, Noel Reid, Sean O’Brien, Brain Blaney, Exeter have singed Jack Dunne for next season.

Most weren’t first choice/established but not happy to be losing Peter Dooley or Josh Murphy this season, great squad players. Nucifora was not popular for engineering the moves of Jordi Murphy, Jack McGrath, Joey Carbery and he really dirtied his bib with Aungier and Salanoa in 2020. He put pressure on Dan Sheehan to speak to Munster last Christmas, they made strong overtures to sign Dan Leavy too. If you are young and emerging second choice in Leinster the IRFU plan is to get you to move to a province with a gap in your position to maximise game time and development. Kids need to back themselves and tell the IRFU to do one.

All that said the sense of playing for where you come from is very strong in Ireland, maybe that’s crept in from the GAA which is parish based. Most players if its at all possible prefer to stay in and play for their home province; but they are professional athletes after all and would be a bit more :censored: minded about it than a lot of the fans. The other thing that keeps guys here on lower money is the national team’s insistence that if you want to play for Ireland you play your rugby in Ireland. They’re looked after well and not flogged, there is a very active game/load management system for the internationals so they tend to play less games and it seems to lead to slightly longer careers.

You have to expect a certain amount of young players will get poached, it can be a short career and if there is someone established ahead of you its logical on a personal level. Its also sign a club is successful. Lastly it creates space for the next man up so no one can rest on their laurels
ourla
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by ourla »

Don't really get all this discussion about salary caps/systems.

The vast majority seem to be in agreement that we didn't play too well, made some bad tactical decisions and substitutions. So given the score it seems if we'd have got things right it would have been much closer and we could have won.

In another 12 months we should be better given where we have come from and the stage we are at.

Exeter won the the competition the season before last.
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by westwinds31 »

Some on the Leinster forum seem pretty upset that we’ve dared to question the referee or comment that we were better second half. I mean, obviously they took their foot off the gas and just had some defensive practice !! Some useful tips on how to keep the scoreboard ticking over and how we should be expanding our one dimensional back play as well. I mean,,,,they won, they deserved to win…they were better aside from maybe at scrum time where it was even. Well done them. I’m sorry but coming on our forum to rub it in doesn’t sit well. Oh, good luck for the rest of the season :smt038
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by Bluemagoo »

Tiglon wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:43 pm
RagingBull wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:37 pm Look at Harlequins Tizard is a massive talent, signed to Sarries despite not really having any major locks blocking him. Would never happen in Ireland.
It might if he played for Connacht :smt003
well; that was 1 Connacht to Leinster move (Sean Cronin a Limerick man did'nt make it in Munster, came to us via Connacht). Of the top of my head; current Connacht senior players who came through Leinster Schools or Academy system: Delahunt, Aungier, Oisin Dowling, Gavin Thornbury, Conor Oliver, Cian Prendergast, Tom Daly, Tom Farrell. I think most of them played against ye this year? On the way to them next year from Leinster. David Hawkshaw, Peter Dooley, Josh Murphy, Adam Byrne (all with a lot of Leinster caps + Euro experience bar Hawkshaw). It's not all about the money either.... https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/conor-ol ... ter-247274.
Scott1
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by Scott1 »

westwinds31 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:13 pm Some on the Leinster forum seem pretty upset that we’ve dared to question the referee or comment that we were better second half. I mean, obviously they took their foot off the gas and just had some defensive practice !! Some useful tips on how to keep the scoreboard ticking over and how we should be expanding our one dimensional back play as well. I mean,,,,they won, they deserved to win…they were better aside from maybe at scrum time where it was even. Well done them. I’m sorry but coming on our forum to rub it in doesn’t sit well. Oh, good luck for the rest of the season :smt038
Never really liked Leinster fans tbh,or Munster. Ulster fans though are ace!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
RagingBull
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by RagingBull »

All the fans seem fine their media is annoying.

Although looking at their forum it's pretty funny them calling us salty about the cap etc. I remember Leinster fans reactions when Sarries became the top dogs of Europe with the likes Toulon, Clermont and Racing accusing the English and French of changing the league to suit them etc.
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by Tiglon »

westwinds31 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:13 pm Some on the Leinster forum seem pretty upset that we’ve dared to question the referee or comment that we were better second half. I mean, obviously they took their foot off the gas and just had some defensive practice !! Some useful tips on how to keep the scoreboard ticking over and how we should be expanding our one dimensional back play as well. I mean,,,,they won, they deserved to win…they were better aside from maybe at scrum time where it was even. Well done them. I’m sorry but coming on our forum to rub it in doesn’t sit well. Oh, good luck for the rest of the season :smt038
Lots of comments on their forum about Leicester fans getting "salty" about the game. I've not seen any Tigers fans suggest that Leinster didn't deserve to win.

Some Leinster fans demanding that we stop booing when decisions go against us and that we get rid of the silence for the kicker. Also complaining that Tigers fans in the terrace disagreed with every decision the ref made... erm, biased fans? In a rugby ground? Outrageous, that would never happen in Ireland :smt044

Just a little bit sanctimonious, but well done on a fairly comfortable win, Leinster are clearly a top side and I'm pleased that Tigers now have an experience of where the benchmark is - I think it will help us massively if/when we come up against Sarries in the playoffs.

There are so many possible reasons for why Leinster might have it "easier" or not, the fact is that every situation is different - you just have to make the best of yours and keep improving.
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by Crofty »

westwinds31 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:13 pm Some on the Leinster forum seem pretty upset that we’ve dared to question the referee or comment that we were better second half. I mean, obviously they took their foot off the gas and just had some defensive practice !! Some useful tips on how to keep the scoreboard ticking over and how we should be expanding our one dimensional back play as well. I mean,,,,they won, they deserved to win…they were better aside from maybe at scrum time where it was even. Well done them. I’m sorry but coming on our forum to rub it in doesn’t sit well. Oh, good luck for the rest of the season :smt038
Well they've got Dickson next week so let's see how their respect for the officials is this time next week...
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?

non possumus capere
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by wigworth »

Crofty wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:08 pm
westwinds31 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:13 pm Some on the Leinster forum seem pretty upset that we’ve dared to question the referee or comment that we were better second half. I mean, obviously they took their foot off the gas and just had some defensive practice !! Some useful tips on how to keep the scoreboard ticking over and how we should be expanding our one dimensional back play as well. I mean,,,,they won, they deserved to win…they were better aside from maybe at scrum time where it was even. Well done them. I’m sorry but coming on our forum to rub it in doesn’t sit well. Oh, good luck for the rest of the season :smt038
Well they've got Dickson next week so let's see how their respect for the officials is this time next week...
:smt044
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by Tiglon »

To be honest, I'd have been delighted to have had Dickson instead of Raynal at the weekend!
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by Crofty »

Tiglon wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:17 pm To be honest, I'd have been delighted to have had Dickson instead of Raynal at the weekend!
To be fair it has been a bit bizarre-o-world with refereeing performances of late...
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?

non possumus capere
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Re: Tigers v Leinster (H) - Saturday 07th May 2022 - 5-30pm KO

Post by amazing tiger »

Just watched parts of the game again I’m not sure kicking high balls to guys who have amazing aerial skills is not a great idea tbh and it didn’t allow us to gain any momentum in the game. Tbh since coming back from England Ford has not looked as good as he previously has been not sure if injuries are impacting him still or not playing for the whole of the six nations is still impacting him. I’ll echo what has already been mentioned in the fact that if you had offered me a QF this last time 2 years ago I’d have taken it in a heartbeat
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