Refs and Sarries

[Greenwhiteandred]

Stat on yesterday’s game showed we had the worst yellow card record FYI.
Sarries only having 3 is laughable.
Whilst most of ours have probably been justifiable, I can’t remember many where we “got away with one” whilst we can see at least 4 Sarries got away with in the last 2 games alone.

[Tiglon]

Let's just hope that the balance is restored in the playoffs.

"Sarries crash out of Semi Final to Quins while having 11 players yellow carded" would be a nice headline

[chris111]

But it's a FACT though that recently Sarries have got away with at least 5 incidents that have all been given yellows or reds in other games this season.

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

[Scott1]

But it's a FACT though that recently Sarries have got away with at least 5 incidents that have all been given yellows or reds in other games this season.

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

Nadolo being given a yellow for “intentional” knock on was a FACT. Billy not being given a yellow for the same,actually worse infringement,is a FACT. Murivalu being given a yellow for diving on a try scorer was a FACT,Sarries player doing the same but not being given yellow was a FACT. Owen Farrell not being given yellow for a shoulder charge was a FACT,the umpteen other similar offences that have been given yellows for are FACTS. The FACT is that basically exactly the same offences in different games have either been given a yellow or just a penalty. Here endeth the lesson. The interpretation that the offences were either yellows or penalties can be debated or argued all day,the fact that the inconsistencies are favouring a certain team when the same offences are given yellow at times and penalties at other times can’t.

[chris111]

But it's a FACT though that recently Sarries have got away with at least 5 incidents that have all been given yellows or reds in other games this season.

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

Nadolo being given a yellow for “intentional” knock on was a FACT. Billy not being given a yellow for the same,actually worse infringement,is a FACT. Murivalu being given a yellow for diving on a try scorer was a FACT,Sarries player doing the same but not being given yellow was a FACT. Owen Farrell not being given yellow for a shoulder charge was a FACT,the umpteen other similar offences that have been given yellows for are FACTS. The FACT is that basically exactly the same offences in different games have either been given a yellow or just a penalty. Here endeth the lesson

Thank you, Scott - I do so appreciate being taught a lesson by you. I just wish I could be as certain about all things as you are - it must make life awfully simple.

[Scott1]

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

Nadolo being given a yellow for “intentional” knock on was a FACT. Billy not being given a yellow for the same,actually worse infringement,is a FACT. Murivalu being given a yellow for diving on a try scorer was a FACT,Sarries player doing the same but not being given yellow was a FACT. Owen Farrell not being given yellow for a shoulder charge was a FACT,the umpteen other similar offences that have been given yellows for are FACTS. The FACT is that basically exactly the same offences in different games have either been given a yellow or just a penalty. Here endeth the lesson

Thank you, Scott - I do so appreciate being taught a lesson by you. I just wish I could be as certain about all things as you are - it must make life awfully simple.

Tigers 17 yellows,Sarries 4. There’s another FACT for you

[wigworth]

But it's a FACT though that recently Sarries have got away with at least 5 incidents that have all been given yellows or reds in other games this season.

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

I don't really agree with this point as there are definatley instances in games where incidents happen and are not dealt with, or recorded on the score sheet as you say that are facts, other wise the citing commissioner would not exist.

The most infamous instance I can think of involves Leicester, when Manu most definitley did punch Ashton in the face and was not red carded, it is a fact it happened and was not recorded on the score sheet.

[Scott1]

But it's a FACT though that recently Sarries have got away with at least 5 incidents that have all been given yellows or reds in other games this season.

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

I don't really agree with this point as there are defiantly instances in games where incidents happen and are not dealt with, or recorded on the score sheet as you say that are facts, other wise the citing commissioner would not exist.

The most infamous instance I can think of involves Leicester, when Manu most defiantly did punch Ashton in the face and was not sanctioned at all during the game, it is a fact it happened and was not recorded on the score sheet.

Spot on! It was a fact that there could have been 3 potential red card incidents looked at in the Lions series but they decided to focus on one that no one even saw at the time. Any one of these could have affected the final score

[Scott1]

I think it’s a sport where “interpretation “ is used far too much. As is “painting the right picture” and “which way the hands were facing”. It used to be far worse when the NH and SH teams played each other and we had to get used to their refs and vice versa,although that doesn’t seem as bad these days.

[chris111]

But it's a FACT though that recently Sarries have got away with at least 5 incidents that have all been given yellows or reds in other games this season.

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

I don't really agree with this point as there are definatley instances in games where incidents happen and are not dealt with, or recorded on the score sheet as you say that are facts, other wise the citing commissioner would not exist.

The most infamous instance I can think of involves Leicester, when Manu most definitley did punch Ashton in the face and was not red carded, it is a fact it happened and was not recorded on the score sheet.

OK, I’ll admit it, I was exaggerating for effect. The broader point, though, is my push back on the implied claims of a refereeing conspiracy to favour Sarries - and I think these claims are ridiculous.

[Scott1]

You can capitalise all you like, but the only FACTS in a rugby game are those recorded on the score sheet. Everything else is interpretation, and that yours differ from those of officials is of no consequence.

I don't really agree with this point as there are definatley instances in games where incidents happen and are not dealt with, or recorded on the score sheet as you say that are facts, other wise the citing commissioner would not exist.

The most infamous instance I can think of involves Leicester, when Manu most definitley did punch Ashton in the face and was not red carded, it is a fact it happened and was not recorded on the score sheet.

OK, I’ll admit it, I was exaggerating for effect. The broader point, though, is my push back on the implied claims of a refereeing conspiracy to favour Sarries - and I think these claims are ridiculous.

So you do agree that the 3 recent yellows and 2 probable reds that weren’t given to Sarries were the correct decisions and that the same offences this season that were given yellows and reds were wrong decisions then?

[jgriffin]

I would, for once, agree to some extent with Scott. 'Interpretations' vary from ref to ref, but when I see "it has to be a yellow/red card" because of new implementation I do not disagree UNTIL I see the same offence clear as day NOT getting the same punishment. I have no problem with almost all cards, and indeed feel some were lucky not to be red, and that includes from our side.
What I feel happens is that dominant teams have their 'season' of laissez-faire - Chiefs certainly had a couple of seasons, over-runs, blocking and in-at-the-side, and almost foundered in Europe when they didn't have that latitude. We may well have had that at some time, possibly around the Back/Johnson era. Sarries have had this for quite a while, before the relegation for me it was their persistent offside defence arc, curving to block the opponents lines.
In the end, we rely on good reffing, possibly even good TMOs, and have to accept that at times we have neither, and misjudgements occur.

[chris111]

I don't really agree with this point as there are definatley instances in games where incidents happen and are not dealt with, or recorded on the score sheet as you say that are facts, other wise the citing commissioner would not exist.

The most infamous instance I can think of involves Leicester, when Manu most definitley did punch Ashton in the face and was not red carded, it is a fact it happened and was not recorded on the score sheet.

OK, I’ll admit it, I was exaggerating for effect. The broader point, though, is my push back on the implied claims of a refereeing conspiracy to favour Sarries - and I think these claims are ridiculous.

So you do agree that the 3 recent yellows and 2 probable reds that weren’t given to Sarries were the correct decisions and that the same offences this season that were given yellows and reds were wrong decisions then?

Hah! I know your gift for sophistry too well to be sucked down that wormhole, Scott!

[Scott1]

OK, I’ll admit it, I was exaggerating for effect. The broader point, though, is my push back on the implied claims of a refereeing conspiracy to favour Sarries - and I think these claims are ridiculous.

So you do agree that the 3 recent yellows and 2 probable reds that weren’t given to Sarries were the correct decisions and that the same offences this season that were given yellows and reds were wrong decisions then?

Hah! I know your gift for sophistry too well to be sucked down that wormhole, Scott!

No I’m asking a genuine question. To shorten it considerably,do you agree Nadolos was a yellow and Billy V was just a penalty then?

[chris111]

So you do agree that the 3 recent yellows and 2 probable reds that weren’t given to Sarries were the correct decisions and that the same offences this season that were given yellows and reds were wrong decisions then?

Hah! I know your gift for sophistry too well to be sucked down that wormhole, Scott!

No I’m asking a genuine question. To shorten it considerably,do you agree Nadolos was a yellow and Billy V was just a penalty then?

I’ll shorten it still further. Yes.