Second rows

[Chobbsy]

I am sure I will get pelters for this, but is it only me or do we need some top class 2nd rows for next season?

I feel what we have currently are journey men, nothing wrong with journey men I saw a great one at Twickenham on Saturday Matt Poole, but if we want to be the best again and remain there I feel we need some new 2nd rows

[Rugbygramps]

Interesting you mention Poole I would say he was in the same bracket as Wells, just a little shy of international standard
In terms of quality I believe that it is potentially already there in the form of Chessum, Martin, and Henderson, who are all older now than when Itoje and Isekwe had their break though seasons. Also the rumoured signing of Cracknell would suggest to me he will be Liebenberg understudy next season.
It’s whether you want that quality international to fit right in, Lavanini was a mixed success, or whether there is enough experience in the camp, Borthwick, Wells , Green for them to continue to develop

[sapajo]

Well we gave Green a contract extension just hope he was very cheap as he is not a developmental player

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

I am sure I will get pelters for this, but is it only me or do we need some top class 2nd rows for next season?

I feel what we have currently are journey men, nothing wrong with journey men I saw a great one at Twickenham on Saturday Matt Poole, but if we want to be the best again and remain there I feel we need some new 2nd rows

Depends if Chessum Snr & Martin are long term 2nd rows, rather than 6's.

[TigerFeetSteve]

So our 2nd row options:

Wells
Synman
Green
Henderson
Chessum
Martin
Liebenberg

Manz
Chessum jnr


So split them into categories.

Genuine World Class
None

Good International std
None

Top level Club player/Occasional International
Wells
Chessum (may go higher)

Good Quality Club Player
Green
Henderson (probably pushing on the next category prior to injury)
Synman

Squad filling/development/plays primarily elsewhere
Martin (need to see if he can move up at lock)
Liebenberg
Manz
Chessum jnr


We definitely have space for one or two players in those top two categories, but if we don't sign one it's a real testament to the fact we think that one of Chessum, Martin or Henderson will be at that level in 12 months or so.

[Tiglon]

Seeing as we have won almost every match so far this season, I would say that "need" is a strong word. It would be nice to have 2 top class locks, but then you have to take the cap from another position on the field.

The reality is that if you look at any club in the league, they will have positions where the players are journeymen or good club men or whatever else you want to call them. You simply can't have good international or world class players in every position.

If sticking with (the very dependable) Wells, Green and Snyman plus Henderson, Chessum and Martin coming through means that we can afford to have the rest of the squad that we have, then I'm happy with it.

It's a bit like the regular "why don't we sign a big Pacific Islander number 8 or winger or centre - great idea, but a) where are you going to find one, and b) who are you going to have to cut from the squad to be able to afford them?

[tigerburnie]

a) with the reduced celery cap we have no room
b) we really do not need to go hunting for talent, we have plenty of our own, we went down the road of neglecting our academy and trying to buy a team, we were almost relegated on the back of it, luckily one of our rarely used academy lads called George Ford saved our bacon.
Replace leavers by all means, but lets not destroy what we have bringing in people we have no real need for, with the hope it works or in the short term puts a few bums on seats.

[westwinds31]

Our locks are clearly good enough, despite not being selected internationally. The line out is superb at the moment as well. Good youngsters coming through so no need to go crazy looking for someone else. If we were going for anyone, I really rate Tizard at Quins and Ribbans is a dynamic lock, very mobile and physical. Would be very good under Borthwick. Tizard off to Sarries sadly.

[Chobbsy]

Seeing as we have won almost every match so far this season, I would say that "need" is a strong word. It would be nice to have 2 top class locks, but then you have to take the cap from another position on the field.

The reality is that if you look at any club in the league, they will have positions where the players are journeymen or good club men or whatever else you want to call them. You simply can't have good international or world class players in every position.

If sticking with (the very dependable) Wells, Green and Snyman plus Henderson, Chessum and Martin coming through means that we can afford to have the rest of the squad that we have, then I'm happy with it.

It's a bit like the regular "why don't we sign a big Pacific Islander number 8 or winger or centre - great idea, but a) where are you going to find one, and b) who are you going to have to cut from the squad to be able to afford them?

We have won matches that is all, we want to win premierships and Europe, secular to accumulate

[RagingBull]

I did think we needed a second row, but didn't think Chessum would develop as quick as he has.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

I did think we needed a second row, but didn't think Chessum would develop as quick as he has.

Fingers crossed with Jnr as well.

[Tiglon]

Seeing as we have won almost every match so far this season, I would say that "need" is a strong word. It would be nice to have 2 top class locks, but then you have to take the cap from another position on the field.

The reality is that if you look at any club in the league, they will have positions where the players are journeymen or good club men or whatever else you want to call them. You simply can't have good international or world class players in every position.

If sticking with (the very dependable) Wells, Green and Snyman plus Henderson, Chessum and Martin coming through means that we can afford to have the rest of the squad that we have, then I'm happy with it.

It's a bit like the regular "why don't we sign a big Pacific Islander number 8 or winger or centre - great idea, but a) where are you going to find one, and b) who are you going to have to cut from the squad to be able to afford them?

We have won matches that is all, we want to win premierships and Europe, secular to accumulate

Yeah, but, salary cap.

[tigerburnie]

Seeing as we have won almost every match so far this season, I would say that "need" is a strong word. It would be nice to have 2 top class locks, but then you have to take the cap from another position on the field.

The reality is that if you look at any club in the league, they will have positions where the players are journeymen or good club men or whatever else you want to call them. You simply can't have good international or world class players in every position.

If sticking with (the very dependable) Wells, Green and Snyman plus Henderson, Chessum and Martin coming through means that we can afford to have the rest of the squad that we have, then I'm happy with it.

It's a bit like the regular "why don't we sign a big Pacific Islander number 8 or winger or centre - great idea, but a) where are you going to find one, and b) who are you going to have to cut from the squad to be able to afford them?

We have won matches that is all, we want to win premierships and Europe, secular to accumulate

Oh ye of little faith, this group of players can win all the above, this is our first full season and we sit top of the league, sitting comfortably in the Euro Cup, we can and will get better. This season I think anyone with any understanding of the game will have had top 6 as a must, top 4 as a nice to have, top 2 was not even on this optimists radar. We are on track to building a very strong squad, undefeated at Welford Road all season, when did we last do that?
Bringing in so called "stars" bed blocking our own talent did not work the last time the club tried to buy success, bringing in seasoned player/coaches to bring on our own youngsters is proving to work. With a side that recently averaged 21 years of age when we took the field, our future is spot on. We have a replacement leader in Hanro, a replacement loosehead in James Whitcombe and 7 players in the England squad for the next 6 nations match, I can't think of where we "need" to bring in other players, unless someone is leaving I would leave the side to develop.

[Rugbygramps]

Seeing as we have won almost every match so far this season, I would say that "need" is a strong word. It would be nice to have 2 top class locks, but then you have to take the cap from another position on the field.

The reality is that if you look at any club in the league, they will have positions where the players are journeymen or good club men or whatever else you want to call them. You simply can't have good international or world class players in every position.

If sticking with (the very dependable) Wells, Green and Snyman plus Henderson, Chessum and Martin coming through means that we can afford to have the rest of the squad that we have, then I'm happy with it.

It's a bit like the regular "why don't we sign a big Pacific Islander number 8 or winger or centre - great idea, but a) where are you going to find one, and b) who are you going to have to cut from the squad to be able to afford them?

We have won matches that is all, we want to win premierships and Europe, secular to accumulate

Oh ye of little faith, this group of players can win all the above, this is our first full season and we sit top of the league, sitting comfortably in the Euro Cup, we can and will get better. This season I think anyone with any understanding of the game will have had top 6 as a must, top 4 as a nice to have, top 2 was not even on this optimists radar. We are on track to building a very strong squad, undefeated at Welford Road all season, when did we last do that?
Bringing in so called "stars" bed blocking our own talent did not work the last time the club tried to buy success, bringing in seasoned player/coaches to bring on our own youngsters is proving to work. With a side that recently averaged 21 years of age when we took the field, our future is spot on. We have a replacement leader in Hanro, a replacement loosehead in James Whitcombe and 7 players in the England squad for the next 6 nations match, I can't think of where we "need" to bring in other players, unless someone is leaving I would leave the side to develop.

I find myself in total agreement with you. Unless there is an opportunity to replace quality with quality, for instance if MVS did have to hang up his boots, Matera would be like for like in terms of quality, it is much better to develop from within, if the quality is there

[Leicestertinytiger]

I think before the season started, many would’ve agreed that maybe our second row was an area of weakness that needed strengthening. However, we’re top the table with Wells and Green being the mainstay in the engine room and haven’t been found wanting.

Next season I could see Martin and Chessum being there or thereabouts international standard. Henderson too could have a break out season. Therefore I think we’re in a good spot.