Referees can get better!!

[TigerFeetSteve]

I saw a number of people wishing that refs were as consistent as CMK, not that long ago he was considered as bad as ref's could get.

There were complaints about him and Luke Pearce... those people wished we could get Wayne Barnes every week... who also used to be much maligned.

Here's a quote from a thread where people thought CMK could never improve...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45529&start=15

Fair point but as previously mentioned Maxwell Keyes has not changed for 10 years plus. Don’t believe ask anyone who saw in ref in what was Nat Midlands 3

Are you saying Wayne Barnes has markedly changed?

Why should Maxwell Keys change? He's 28yo and refereeing in the top English league every week.

I remember a number of games between us and Saints that Mr Barnes officiated and the only thing both sets of fans on the terrace could agree on was that Sir was dire and we'd rather have anyone other than him officiating. Roll on 7-8 years and the previously much maligned Mr Barnes is the one ref that we all want to ref our games.

Has he changed? Yes, I think so. His rapport with the players is clear and he explains his decisions well and in a non-confrontational manner. But, the main thing is that the players know what they will get from him - his consistency of decision making and especially the big decisions has improved immeasurably. I, for one, will be sad to see Mr Barnes hang up his whistle at the end of the season.

As for the others - Pearce, Maxwell-Keyes et al can only improve and I hope that they improve in the same way that Barnes did and that'll only come with experience.

Do people think it's fair to say that maybe there's a shortage of top class refs but with time and experience the ones who stick around are actually getting better?

[Tigerbeat]

There is a shortage of referees as Covid has reduced the opportunities for development through lack of game time in the lower divisions. I am sure that as we return to a normal schedule we will see new faces in the game.

[Rugbygramps]

There is no doubt some do improve. Maybe rather than this push for ex players, Dickson and Berry to name 2, there should be more of an effort to promote those that have served their time in the lower leagues and are getting excellent reports.
I know Ridley was in the academy, but both he and CMK served their time in the National leagues and are now good quality refs, though Deano might disagree about Ridley

[longlivethecrumbie]

I saw a number of people wishing that refs were as consistent as CMK, not that long ago he was considered as bad as ref's could get.

There were complaints about him and Luke Pearce... those people wished we could get Wayne Barnes every week... who also used to be much maligned.

Here's a quote from a thread where people thought CMK could never improve...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45529&start=15

Are you saying Wayne Barnes has markedly changed?

Why should Maxwell Keys change? He's 28yo and refereeing in the top English league every week.

I remember a number of games between us and Saints that Mr Barnes officiated and the only thing both sets of fans on the terrace could agree on was that Sir was dire and we'd rather have anyone other than him officiating. Roll on 7-8 years and the previously much maligned Mr Barnes is the one ref that we all want to ref our games.

Has he changed? Yes, I think so. His rapport with the players is clear and he explains his decisions well and in a non-confrontational manner. But, the main thing is that the players know what they will get from him - his consistency of decision making and especially the big decisions has improved immeasurably. I, for one, will be sad to see Mr Barnes hang up his whistle at the end of the season.

As for the others - Pearce, Maxwell-Keyes et al can only improve and I hope that they improve in the same way that Barnes did and that'll only come with experience.

Do people think it's fair to say that maybe there's a shortage of top class refs but with time and experience the ones who stick around are actually getting better?

Wow, I remember writing that too.

I think they can improve and in some cases, quite rapidly.

Pearce is now one of the top drawer refs in the Premiership and also at international level without having taken so long to get there. Craig Maxwell-Keys has improved out of sight in a really, really short space of time. Christophe Ridley, Jack Makepeace and Angus Gardner are all, IMHO, decent young refs. They have plenty of room to improve but they also only have a small number of top notch senior colleagues to mentor them. The one ref who gets a lot of stick on here, rightly so in most cases, is Karl Dickson. He was promoted amid much fanfare with him being a former (relatively recently at that) Premiership player. Since his debut season he's rapidly got to a point where he now has an international game next week. I, for one, feel really sorry for Makepeace and Gardner that they haven't had more opportunities whereas Dickson is being handed opportunity after opportunity.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I think it clearly shows exposure at the highest level really does allow refs to progress.

I do wonder if the current arch nemesis Dickson will step up, especially now he's in thr international arena and things will be in place to improve his officiating.

[Crofty]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't both Pearce and CMK's big uptick in performance correlate with some one on one mentorship from Wayne Barnes? If so is this not suggestive that some sort of structured mentorship for those coming up from the lower levels of refereeing is a necessity ar this point? Further would it be beneficial to turn the top level into a true profession, with requirements for completed training and Continuing Professional Development like any other profession?

[Dokie]

I think it clearly shows exposure at the highest level really does allow refs to progress.

I do wonder if the current arch nemesis Dickson will step up, especially now he's in thr international arena and things will be in place to improve his officiating.

This exposure doesn’t always work. Take Adamson as an example. After Saturday’s 6N game, I wonder which side will be castigating him - or will it be both!

[Tigerbeat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't both Pearce and CMK's big uptick in performance correlate with some one on one mentorship from Wayne Barnes? If so is this not suggestive that some sort of structured mentorship for those coming up from the lower levels of refereeing is a necessity ar this point? Further would it be beneficial to turn the top level into a true profession, with requirements for completed training and Continuing Professional Development like any other profession?

Pearce and CMK were mentorred by Gary Welsh and Brian Campsall.

[Crofty]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't both Pearce and CMK's big uptick in performance correlate with some one on one mentorship from Wayne Barnes? If so is this not suggestive that some sort of structured mentorship for those coming up from the lower levels of refereeing is a necessity ar this point? Further would it be beneficial to turn the top level into a true profession, with requirements for completed training and Continuing Professional Development like any other profession?

Pearce and CMK were mentorred by Gary Welsh and Brian Campsall.

Fair enough, point still stands though, no?