Farrell vs Scotland

[mol2]

Ignore the year or two.
Would you pick Daly ahead of Kelly today?

For me I have seen enough of Kelly to play him ahead of Daly, be that for Tigers or England.
I haven’t seen enough of Ojomoh to comment.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Ignore the year or two.
Would you pick Daly ahead of Kelly today?

For me I have seen enough of Kelly to play him ahead of Daly, be that for Tigers or England.
I haven’t seen enough of Ojomoh to comment.

To mind there's two questions

1. Who is better today?

2. Who is most likely better at the world cup next year?

If the answer to both is the same then that's the way you have to go, if it's different you have a choice to make.

IMO 2 is clearly Kelly, 1 is probably a split decision, so I'd go with Kelly, get him exposure, get him playing with a likely outside centre and build up that understanding

[Cardiff Tig]

Genuine question, apart from Manu, does England have an international class 12?
Slade is a 13. Lawrence I haven’t seen enough of, Atkinson I don’t think is. Lozowski and Hendrickson are the best I can think of. Thoughts please?

Manu and Farrell are both international class 12s and both injured. So England are down to 3rd choice. I think Lozowski and Lawrence are both probably as good as any other nations 3rd/4th choice 12s. I'd like to see them get more of a run out to actually see if they can make the grade. Dan Kelly is an interesting one. I think he needs another season once teams have analysed his game to see if he still makes it. He's a bit of an unknown at the moment but will be on other teams radars now after this season.

[ay2oh]

Disagree that Farrell is an international class centre. His ability to create is non existent and his tackling technique is suspect. At one point he was worth picking for his ability to kick points from anywhere on the field but he is now no better than smith or Ford . His passing range is also average so what is he international class at ?

[Chobbsy]

(I think I know the answer going from previous threads on here but here goes anyway...)

IMO, we wouldn't have lost against Scotland with Farrell at 12. Farrell would also have led the backline both in defense and attack more in terms of positioning. He would have been a second distributor at 12 to help go wide when it was on, and Slade would have kept his space and line better at 13 than Daly (IMO).

Am I the only one who thought England missed him on Saturday?

I totally agree, not only from a playing point of view, but a calm head and more importantly he would have been in the refs ear, as much as I really rate Curry, he wasn't a captain on Saturday

[ads]

If the choice was Daly or Farrell, I'd chose Farrell, but if the choice is who to pick outside of Smith to facilitate his game, I'd ask Smith who he wants!
I don't see the point of Farrell if we want Smith to play his natural game. While Farrell is injured we really need to be trying to see what we've got, but EJ doesn't trust Smith so he picks someone like Daly in the centres as well, and then screws up the ability to actually play the ball.
We should have gone for Slade 12, Marchent 13, Nowel 11 or Aitkinson12, Slade 13, Marchent/Nowel 11. Daly should have been nowhere near Scotland.

I do think Kelly is good enough to be training with England though.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Also have to ask with Farrell, Manu out and Marchant on the wing, who in the centres is leading the defence? Kelly or Moroni does this for Tigers in the backs. Neither Slade nor Daly have the ability to do this which I think was also missing against Scotland.

Marchant is an exceptional defender in the 13 channel, not so much on the wing.

[westwinds31]

(I think I know the answer going from previous threads on here but here goes anyway...)

IMO, we wouldn't have lost against Scotland with Farrell at 12. Farrell would also have led the backline both in defense and attack more in terms of positioning. He would have been a second distributor at 12 to help go wide when it was on, and Slade would have kept his space and line better at 13 than Daly (IMO).

Am I the only one who thought England missed him on Saturday?

CT - very brave of you ! Fully agree. My views on Farrell should be known on here, so nothing more to add.

[LtPigeon]

To say that Farrell is better in the centres than Daly is not necessarily a compliment

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

To say that Farrell is better in the centres than Daly is not necessarily a compliment

It's up there with "Sir" is better than Dickson.

The main problem with Farrell is he has to be the focal point, it has affected Ford when at 10 & it will shackle Smith as well.

[westwinds31]

Disagree that Farrell is an international class centre. His ability to create is non existent and his tackling technique is suspect. At one point he was worth picking for his ability to kick points from anywhere on the field but he is now no better than smith or Ford . His passing range is also average so what is he international class at ?

Its all about combinations at international level in my view. A solid 12 with a more dynamic 13 can work well. I suspect Farrell is international class, but that would depend on your definition of international class I guess. He's experienced at that level for starters, he's played 10 and 12 at (I would say) an international standard. He's got good game management. Admittedly not all the time but on the whole he's been consistently at a high level, internationally. I don't agree with you, I think he's creative, can spot a gap, carries above his weight defensively he's generally sound and I don't buy the tackle technique thing - the media and others have magnified a couple of reckless shots and it's now stuck - on the whole he's very good defensively. His kicking from the tee is still very good, out of hand he's as good as their is. Passing range ? I'm interested in how you've come up with that ? Have you looked into his passing range compared to others ? All in all, I don't think there's a better all-round 12 in England. Manu may be able to attract more defenders to give space outside and dent bigger holes, but his kicking game isn't as good. Maybe you don't need a kicking 12 if you've got someone of that calibre. Currently we haven't got a 12 that would be the #1 choice. It would be Manu, but can't rely for obviously reasons. Atkinson I'm afraid is nowhere near, nor Slade, nor Lawrence...nor Kelly. It's a problem.

I'm sure we can all pick out games where Farrell hasn't been as effective, but then name me a player where you can't do that, in the England set up.

[ay2oh]

Disagree that Farrell is an international class centre. His ability to create is non existent and his tackling technique is suspect. At one point he was worth picking for his ability to kick points from anywhere on the field but he is now no better than smith or Ford . His passing range is also average so what is he international class at ?

Its all about combinations at international level in my view. A solid 12 with a more dynamic 13 can work well. I suspect Farrell is international class, but that would depend on your definition of international class I guess. He's experienced at that level for starters, he's played 10 and 12 at (I would say) an international standard. He's got good game management. Admittedly not all the time but on the whole he's been consistently at a high level, internationally. I don't agree with you, I think he's creative, can spot a gap, carries above his weight defensively he's generally sound and I don't buy the tackle technique thing - the media and others have magnified a couple of reckless shots and it's now stuck - on the whole he's very good defensively. His kicking from the tee is still very good, out of hand he's as good as their is. Passing range ? I'm interested in how you've come up with that ? Have you looked into his passing range compared to others ? All in all, I don't think there's a better all-round 12 in England. Manu may be able to attract more defenders to give space outside and dent bigger holes, but his kicking game isn't as good. Maybe you don't need a kicking 12 if you've got someone of that calibre. Currently we haven't got a 12 that would be the #1 choice. It would be Manu, but can't rely for obviously reasons. Atkinson I'm afraid is nowhere near, nor Slade, nor Lawrence...nor Kelly. It's a problem.

I'm sure we can all pick out games where Farrell hasn't been as effective, but then name me a player where you can't do that, in the England set up.

You must be watching a different player to me. Let’s agree to disagree.

[Chobbsy]

If the choice was Daly or Farrell, I'd chose Farrell, but if the choice is who to pick outside of Smith to facilitate his game, I'd ask Smith who he wants!
I don't see the point of Farrell if we want Smith to play his natural game. While Farrell is injured we really need to be trying to see what we've got, but EJ doesn't trust Smith so he picks someone like Daly in the centres as well, and then screws up the ability to actually play the ball.
We should have gone for Slade 12, Marchent 13, Nowel 11 or Aitkinson12, Slade 13, Marchent/Nowel 11. Daly should have been nowhere near Scotland.

I do think Kelly is good enough to be training with England though.

I agree that Marchant is a centre for me not a winger, Daly should be there, but only to carry the water and kicking T, This hard fast game was ready made for Nowel and I think Atkinson should have been in the 23

[BengalTiger]

The backline was a mess all game, if the answer is Daly then the question was not who is an international center in fact if the answer is Daly I think I will give up watching rugby!

[Tiglon]

The fact that no one on here can agree who should play suggests there is probably no right or wrong answer, certainly no easy answer...