6 Nations 2022

[Tigers86asw]

The problem is we are one of the richest rugby nations in the world. We have just as much, if not more resources than New Zealand, South Africa and France. Would they settle for these six nations campaigns? I doubt the Southern Hemisphere giants would.

Talk about allowing development, as many have said on here, after the World Cup and during the Autumn yes but otherwise no. Not two years from a World Cup.

[Old Hob]

EJ's performance indicator was an 80% win rate; this has been achieved only if you combine the men's team with the women's team

[ourla]

In what other sport would the head of the national team expect to excuse shcoking performance in the European or world championships because they are building for the Olympics?

If we look on the 6N as the equivalent of the Euros do we think Gareth Southgate would say "We are using this as development for the World Cup." Only once and shortly before his P45.

The test side losing to Sri Lanka and saying it's art of the build up to the Ashes?

If you are playing professional sport you play to win.

#1 Was it shocking though?

#2 When are teams not developing? I mean he picked a team to win every game and ultimately to try and win the tournament. I don't think anyone could claim he wasn't trying to win the tournament.

#3 People have been asking for the likes of SImmonds, Smith, Randall, Dombrandt to be given a chance. And then when they are given a chance Jones gets told this is not the time for development.

[Tiglon]

In 2007 Usain Bolt lost the 200m World Championship final to Tyson Gay. Imagine if he'd been told that World Championships were not there to develop for the Olympics and that he should give up if he couldn't win every single tournament he entered...

Imagine if Sir Clive had been sacked in 2002 because it was unacceptable not to win the 6 nations...

[northerntiger]

In 2007 Usain Bolt lost the 200m World Championship final to Tyson Gay. Imagine if he'd been told that World Championships were not there to develop for the Olympics and that he should give up if he couldn't win every single tournament he entered...

Imagine if Sir Clive had been sacked in 2002 because it was unacceptable not to win the 6 nations...

I'm not sure this is entirely the point. He's not being castigated because he failed to win, he's being castigated because he seems to have not tried to win

[wigworth]

In 2007 Usain Bolt lost the 200m World Championship final to Tyson Gay. Imagine if he'd been told that World Championships were not there to develop for the Olympics and that he should give up if he couldn't win every single tournament he entered...

Imagine if Sir Clive had been sacked in 2002 because it was unacceptable not to win the 6 nations...

I'm not sure this is entirely the point. He's not being castigated because he failed to win, he's being castigated because he seems to have not tried to win

What makes you think that he was not trying to win?

[Soggypitch]

I think Eddie always tries to win every game, but he does seem obsessed with the WC, which is only every 4 years and is often won or lost on a piece of luck. NZ were the best team in a number of previous WCs but failed to win the trophy due to various factors.

Look how good Irish teams have consistently failed to perform at WCs.

So to stake your whole reputation on a once every 4 years KO competition is bonkers. We England fans want every 6Ns to be the absolute priority, success in the 6Ns and Autumn internationals should then lead onto a good performance in the WC.

The idea of "development" is fanciful for these important international games. Yes we have to blood young talent such as Smith, Randall, Quirke and Steward, but those younger players must have experienced players around them, preferably ones with good leadership skills.

Ourla is right, Eddie has responded to the clamour to pick Dombrandt, Simmons and Smith in particular, but why completely discard Billy Vunipola? He had a couple of bad seasons when he was not properly fit and firing due to a succession of injuries.....but before that he was regarded as one of the very best 8's in the world. He's now back to playing at his best and is not even "in the frame".

Perhaps Eddie's biggest failure has been not finding a settled centre combination that doesn't involve Manu.

Most successful teams have a strong carrying 12 or it can be a 13 (England 2003), but rarely does it work to have 3 distributors/ball players at 10, 12 and 13. For years Wales had great success playing Roberts at 12, likewise the Lions, but Eddie has found nobody he trusts from the whole of England. Kelly is potentially that man IMO.

Brian Moore makes the point this week that for now England don't have the talent available and he is right. Our players are not much better than Wales/Scotland and not as good as Ireland/France. We do have players coming through, but we mustn't discard our gems like Billy V, anyone who can provide consistent front foot ball is a rarity and to be cherished.

Who would want Eddie's job? Well probably all of us for the money he's on!!

[wigworth]

I think Eddie always tries to win every game, but he does seem obsessed with the WC, which is only every 4 years and is often won or lost on a piece of luck. NZ were the best team in a number of previous WCs but failed to win the trophy due to various factors.

Look how good Irish teams have consistently failed to perform at WCs.

So to stake your whole reputation on a once every 4 years KO competition is bonkers. We England fans want every 6Ns to be the absolute priority, success in the 6Ns and Autumn internationals should then lead onto a good performance in the WC.

I think Eddie has made it abundantly clear that the WC is pretty much his be all and end all. While he is not being completely ambivalent to all other international competitions they are a means to an end to prepare for what he considers to be his grander vision, his comments about how everything last WC cycle led up to the semi final against the All Blacks is a pretty good indication into his thinking imo.

I genuinely don't think he really cares about winning the six nations or grand slams, he has won them before and has ticked that box, clearly he believes himself to be one of the best coaches in the world and the only thing missing from his trophy cabinet is a World Cup he won himself as head coach. I do disagree with your point here that staking your reputation on the world cup is bonkers, to be considered in the absolute top tier international coaches winning a world cup is a must and by far and away a bigger reputation booster than being good in your regional international tournament.

Given the draw in the WC there is pretty decent chance he might even be able to pull it off, assuming England can hold serve on a match against Wales or Aus they are into the semis, thus only potentially having to play two really tough matches to win the whole thing. Conversely Ireland, despite how well they are playing currently appear to destined for a quarter final exit again given they will face either France or NZ, depending on how the groups shake out.

[Scott1]

In 2007 Usain Bolt lost the 200m World Championship final to Tyson Gay. Imagine if he'd been told that World Championships were not there to develop for the Olympics and that he should give up if he couldn't win every single tournament he entered...

Imagine if Sir Clive had been sacked in 2002 because it was unacceptable not to win the 6 nations...

There's always one!

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

It will all be ok in the Summer.....Farrell is back this weekend.......

[ads]

TBH, and I'm not his biggest fan. I think we'd have done better had Farrel been in the team. Maybe EJ was trying to prove a point....

[Scott1]

Six nations TOTT:
15. Hugo Keenan (Ireland) 14. Damian Penaud (France) 13. Gaël Fickou (France) 12. Jonathan Danty (France) 11. Gabin Villiere (France) 10. Romain Ntamack (France) 9. Antoine Dupont (France) 8. Gregory Alldritt (France) 7. Josh van der Flier (Ireland) 6. François Cros (France) 5. Paul Willemse (France) 4. Maro Itoje (France) 3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland) 2. Julien Marchand (France) 1. Cyril Baille (France)

Personally I would've had Genge and Steward in there too

[Jimmy Skitz]

RFU will be in trouble playing a Frenchman for England ...

[MrG2]

Six nations TOTT:
15. Hugo Keenan (Ireland) 14. Damian Penaud (France) 13. Gaël Fickou (France) 12. Jonathan Danty (France) 11. Gabin Villiere (France) 10. Romain Ntamack (France) 9. Antoine Dupont (France) 8. Gregory Alldritt (France) 7. Josh van der Flier (Ireland) 6. François Cros (France) 5. Paul Willemse (France) 4. Maro Itoje (France) 3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland) 2. Julien Marchand (France) 1. Cyril Baille (France)



Personally I would've had Genge and Steward in there too

I would certainly had Steward in. To be fair I would probably have gone for Baille as well he has had an outstanding tournament. There’s no doubt however though that if they were picking a Lions team Ellis would be the number 1. Let’s make the most of him while we still can.

[mol2]

I don't buy the "we don't have the players"
Perhaps that might apply to France but I don't accept that with the other teams. Genge made the much fawned about Irish tight head look plain ordinary.

We don't have an effective game plan. Yes strange selections don't help but we have seen at Tigers, in spite of losing Manu and an assortment of players that took us over the salary cap, we still seem to win with half a dozen top players out on international duty as well as Cole and others injured. With all of them there 18 months ago we couldn't buy a win.

Coaching, strategy and an absolute faith in a handful of players that perform way below the level of their reputation implied is what is harming England.