6 Nations 2022

[Old Hob]

Ugo Monye calls RFU statement "Dishonest". "There hasn't been progress"

BBC

[Scott1]

It would be much better if he didn't have these crazy ideas about hybrid players and constantly playing players out of position or moving them around. Lancaster was the same though but not as bad,Brad Barritt at 13 and Mike Brown on the wing etc. Can't understand what the fascination is!

I get that locks can play back row, assuming that they're confident in what is expected in the different roles. The constant call for an "out-and-out 7" also winds me up - in Neil Back's day then maybe, as he was the only person who used to jackal. Nowadays, everyone is adept at getting over the ball. In the backs, to be honest I have no clue anymore especially in the centres, who is a 12 and who is a 13. There's also a school of thought that you get your best players onto the field, if that means someone who mainly plays full back on the wing, so be it. I did get Steward being played out there, for the high balls and to be fair to Jones, it worked to a certain extent. I'd rather he was at full back but if you ask Freddie, he'd play 10 I'm sure, as long as he was starting !

Im the opposite,I can tell that Harris,Ringrose,Fickou etc are 13. (Even though Fickou plays wing sometimes,where he's nowhere near as good which further proves my point) One thing that's really hurt Wales at times is playing JD2 at 12,as well as playing Adams at 13 this 6N which was an absolute disaster! Many more examples

[Tiglon]

It would be much better if he didn't have these crazy ideas about hybrid players and constantly playing players out of position or moving them around. Lancaster was the same though but not as bad,Brad Barritt at 13 and Mike Brown on the wing etc. Can't understand what the fascination is!

I get that locks can play back row, assuming that they're confident in what is expected in the different roles. The constant call for an "out-and-out 7" also winds me up - in Neil Back's day then maybe, as he was the only person who used to jackal. Nowadays, everyone is adept at getting over the ball. In the backs, to be honest I have no clue anymore especially in the centres, who is a 12 and who is a 13. There's also a school of thought that you get your best players onto the field, if that means someone who mainly plays full back on the wing, so be it. I did get Steward being played out there, for the high balls and to be fair to Jones, it worked to a certain extent. I'd rather he was at full back but if you ask Freddie, he'd play 10 I'm sure, as long as he was starting !

Im the opposite,I can tell that Harris,Ringrose,Fickou etc are 13. (Even though Fickou plays wing sometimes,where he's nowhere near as good which further proves my point) One thing that's really hurt Wales at times is playing JD2 at 12,as well as playing Adams at 13 this 6N which was an absolute disaster! Many more examples

Scott, you can find examples of it both working and not working, because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but obviously you'll only choose the latter to confirm your opinion. It doesn't make you right, it just makes you biased and blinkered.

[Scott1]

I get that locks can play back row, assuming that they're confident in what is expected in the different roles. The constant call for an "out-and-out 7" also winds me up - in Neil Back's day then maybe, as he was the only person who used to jackal. Nowadays, everyone is adept at getting over the ball. In the backs, to be honest I have no clue anymore especially in the centres, who is a 12 and who is a 13. There's also a school of thought that you get your best players onto the field, if that means someone who mainly plays full back on the wing, so be it. I did get Steward being played out there, for the high balls and to be fair to Jones, it worked to a certain extent. I'd rather he was at full back but if you ask Freddie, he'd play 10 I'm sure, as long as he was starting !

Im the opposite,I can tell that Harris,Ringrose,Fickou etc are 13. (Even though Fickou plays wing sometimes,where he's nowhere near as good which further proves my point) One thing that's really hurt Wales at times is playing JD2 at 12,as well as playing Adams at 13 this 6N which was an absolute disaster! Many more examples

Scott, you can find examples of it both working and not working, because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but obviously you'll only choose the latter to confirm your opinion. It doesn't make you right, it just makes you biased and blinkered.

Let's just do away with shirt numbers then ay might as well. All the greatest centre combinations of all time ,club and country,have had a 12 and a 13. There's a reason for that. I'll let you work it out

[Tiglon]

Im the opposite,I can tell that Harris,Ringrose,Fickou etc are 13. (Even though Fickou plays wing sometimes,where he's nowhere near as good which further proves my point) One thing that's really hurt Wales at times is playing JD2 at 12,as well as playing Adams at 13 this 6N which was an absolute disaster! Many more examples

Scott, you can find examples of it both working and not working, because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but obviously you'll only choose the latter to confirm your opinion. It doesn't make you right, it just makes you biased and blinkered.

Let's just do away with shirt numbers then ay might as well. All the greatest centre combinations of all time ,club and country,have had a 12 and a 13. There's a reason for that. I'll let you work it out

This is your problem Scott, it isn't a choice between one extreme and the other.

[Scott1]

No problem with it whatsoever, why would I? I'm right in what I say

[ashleytiger]

Ugo Monye calls RFU statement "Dishonest". "There hasn't been progress"

BBC

Sir Clive goes further - Good for them, about time someone spoke out!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... fools.html

[Scott1]

On a more cheery note
https://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1121174503?-17423:2712

[Tiglon]

Ugo and Clive are right, but Clive just annoys the hell out of me. He won the RWC because he was lucky with the players he had and he embraced professionalism a bit quicker than others. Then he decided Alastair Campbell was needed on a Lions tour and did media training instead of line-out drills resulting in utter humiliation in NZ. He's living proof of the fine margins between being known as a legend or a clown. Personally I think he's the latter.

On a more cheery note
https://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1121174503?-17423:2712

Some good points in there, to summarise:

Erasmus' win record against tier 1 with the Springboks is only 59%, and won the RWC by bringing in the stormers pack who he'd coached before.

Even if England don't improve, they should get the semi in 2023.

[mol2]

Clive Woodward made the mistake of trying to build the Lions around the core of his world cup winning side.

That was a side already on the decline before the world cup. They lost key players and a number of them were past their best by some way by the Lions tour. The ravages of time on once great players made the difference between world beaters and woeful. Tactics had evolved to counter the pod system and the player were just a bit slower.

I never will accept the "Class is premanent" line.
Sure form is temporary but over the hill is forever. Certainly for players and probably coaches too. The need to evolve your team is essential and difficult to sustain. Being a bit over the hill is significant as the differences at the top level are tiny but the impact immense.
And very few were so far above the rest that a small loss of physical and mental ability can be compensated for by experience.


It's easy for us and the pundits to see what is wrong but to put it right is much more difficult.

[ourla]

Progress is subjective. People will have their opinions.

The RFU gave Jones the job to the next RWC and you can't say for sure at the moment they should pull out of that.

I think England have been a bit unlucky this 6N. Could have easily have been 4 wins rather than 2.

[mol2]

Progress is subjective. People will have their opinions.

The RFU gave Jones the job to the next RWC and you can't say for sure at the moment they should pull out of that.

I think England have been a bit unlucky this 6N. Could have easily have been 4 wins rather than 2.

Progress is a vuage term - it's what direction and rate of progress that matters. Just because that progress isn't regression to where you came from it doesn't mean that progress is in the right direction.

England have not progressed towards building a side capable of winning the 6N (so by inference the World Cup is still as far away as it was)

Were England unlucky. Yes in terms of the Ireland game with a red card - but those are the current laws. It showed that Ireland are not the wonder team the press perpetually would have us believe. Well coached and drilled without a doubt.

Were we unlucky against Scotland - no simply inept in attack against a side who are not that good.

We beat Wales and Italy - the former were woeful and the latter 1 point better.

France are a top level outfit in world terms and England never looked like winning. Like against Scotland the cohesion in attack was absent.

England are like Tigers were pre Borthwick, no where near the sum of their parts because of inadequate coaching and strategy compounded by blind faith in a few players who simply aren't at the level the coaches think they are.

[Tiglon]

The article Scott shared pointed out that in some ways it's easier to win the RWC than the 6N - with England's draw they will likely only have to beat Argentina, Wales and 2 more tier 1 nations.

France are the best team in the world at the moment and Ireland showed in Paris that they aren't far behind. Australia have been average for some time, South Africa (apart from winning the last RWC) have a pretty poor win record in recent years against tier 1 teams and lost to England last Autumn, and NZ are far from the unbeatables that they have often been in the past.

If anyone wanted to be kind to Eddie Jones, they could point towards the disruption from the Saracens relegation, and the number of World Cup finalists currently unavailable through injury etc - most of that back line are currently on the physio bench.

[wigworth]

The article Scott shared pointed out that in some ways it's easier to win the RWC than the 6N - with England's draw they will likely only have to beat Argentina, Wales and 2 more tier 1 nations.

From having a quick look at how the draw plays out it is most likely that England would play either NZ or France in the semis, assuming England get there, but that would amount to a catastrophic failure if they don't given the pool England are in and getting to play the quarter finals matches against the other weakest pool.

[Old Hob]

Clive Woodward, Dallaglio, Sam Warburton, Lewis Moody have all piled in, basically agreeing with Monye. Times journos run the rule over the rest of the coaching staff and don't find much to celebrate there, either. They also ask "Who runs RFU?" after SCW gave "confidential feedback" to them after 2019 World cup but later received an abusive message from EJ within the hour. Sweeney has not held a press conference for over a year so journos having to guess overall strategy.
Most general criticism is it's an amateur shambles, and back to the 'old farts' days.