Idea on penalties and sanctions

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ourla
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Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by ourla » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:29 pm

In basketball, if a player commits x number of fouls they are removed and if a team commits x number of fouls for each subsequent foul their opponent gets free throws. Could something similar be done in rugby I wonder?

Reason for thinking about was I was reading the Saints v Sarries match report where Saracens conceded 10+ penalties in the first half without further sanction other than the penalty itself i.e., nobody got a yellow card. It struck me that maybe some objective measures could be put in place (perhaps tracked by the TMO) that would alleviate the understandable irregularity of the referee making sanctions. So for example after x number of penalties against an individual they could automatically be sin binned. If a team makes x number of penalties it could be an automatic penalty try. Details would obviously need working out.
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Scott1
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by Scott1 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:33 pm

Me ,I would just prefer the ref to do his job properly and consistently but I hear ya.

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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by Pellsey » Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:43 pm

I think this is a great idea as it "takes the ref out of the equation". It would be nice, Scott, if they were consistant, but they are not!

It would mean, though, that 10 "deliberate" knock-ons, for example would then theoretically have the same sanction as 10 slightly high tackles, which I think would be unfair. If done correctly, though, I think this would be great.

fortysix
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by fortysix » Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:14 pm

Often thought this 5 penalties, automatic yellow. 15 penalties, red .
Would soon sort the eternal fouling going on by expert practioners.

Farmboy
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by Farmboy » Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:23 pm

I would like to see the penalties during an advantage included as I believe there were several before Martin scored but none added to total committed by Newcastle. They are still penalties committed during play.

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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by chris111 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:00 pm

fortysix wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:14 pm
Often thought this 5 penalties, automatic yellow. 15 penalties, red .
Would soon sort the eternal fouling going on by expert practioners.
5 penalties is awfully low - Tigers were incredibly disciplined at the weekend but would still have received a yellow card by your measure

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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:13 pm

If you go down that route. This is my proposal.

I'd say 8 cumulative penalties need a card, ones in the your 22 count double. Counter reset with the yellow (not upped to red next time)

Certain infingments outside that cumulative total

Foul play seperate, so if a yellow or red given for foul play it doesn't reset the count.

Also scrums on a seperate counter, I'd make a yellow come at 4 pens (not double in the 22, but if 4 in a row inside the 22 it's a penalty try)
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Scott1
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by Scott1 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:14 pm

My biggest gripe is players being let off with yellow cards just because the opposition scores a try. That’s not a punishment! Go back and bin the player too refs!

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:38 pm

Be nice if the officials could just do the basics first, as they fail to sort the Hookers Feet when throwing into the lineout, I have little hope in even marginally more complicated things being corrected.
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Scott1
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by Scott1 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:55 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:38 pm
Be nice if the officials could just do the basics first, as they fail to sort the Hookers Feet when throwing into the lineout, I have little hope in even marginally more complicated things being corrected.
This ☝

old one eye
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by old one eye » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:21 pm

I know where you are coming from, but I think this would just make more complications in an already complicated sport, the number of times I have heard people say, oh I don’t watch rugby, I don’t understand it.

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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by chris111 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:50 pm

old one eye wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:21 pm
I know where you are coming from, but I think this would just make more complications in an already complicated sport, the number of times I have heard people say, oh I don’t watch rugby, I don’t understand it.
Agree entirely - rugby is complicated enough as it is. It’s dangerous to become fixated on ‘consistency’ and so try to take referees’ interpretation out of the equation with formulaic approaches. This doesn’t help make the game ‘fairer’ - quite the opposite, in fact, as it takes away the power of officials to make nuanced judgements ‘in the moment’.

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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by WhitecapTiger » Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:48 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:14 pm
My biggest gripe is players being let off with yellow cards just because the opposition scores a try. That’s not a punishment! Go back and bin the player too refs!
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:38 pm
Be nice if the officials could just do the basics first, as they fail to sort the Hookers Feet when throwing into the lineout, I have little hope in even marginally more complicated things being corrected.
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ads
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by ads » Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:16 pm

Some things don't need interpreting, things like putting the ball into the second row, not throwing in straight at line outs, not using it when told to use it are straight up yes or no.
Other things like 'deliberate' knock on', rnot rolling away, being off your feet do need a bit of interpretation or.looking at timing, but get the basics right first Make it simple for yourself (as a ref) and the players on the pitch. As well as easier for the watching public, and potential newcomers.

Ian Cant
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Re: Idea on penalties and sanctions

Post by Ian Cant » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:33 pm

Like others the most annoying aspect is like against Newcastle for both second half tries: sitting that end behind the posts Newcastle put in two very high tackles and two deliberate knock ons: the second of these stopped a 3-1 overlap but as we then scored a few phases later the players got away with things! In other games with other teams I’ve seen refs/TMOs still give yellows!
I still think Jasper’s 2 week ban was 1 week too many: his last yellow was naive but wasn’t dangerous unlike some of the other hits that happened in games the same weekend.
Could cost us v Wasps against their back row.

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