Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

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RagingBull
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by RagingBull »

Tiglon wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:49 pm :smt044 ok so we've kicked out some brilliant players, I take it back!
RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:14 pm
Tiglon wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:37 pm I'm confident if he's good enough he will be signed up. I know some people like to complain about who we've let go, but I'm struggling to think of an academy product who we've not offered a senior contract to and has gone on to be a top player at another club, so I have faith in the clubs judgement.
Tommy Freeman.
Fair enough, didn't know he was at the Tigers academy, he is doing pretty well for himself! I don't remember hearing of him here, was he let go at a younger age?
ABClub wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:39 pm Going back a lot further but definitely Hamish Watson.
Was Watson rejected or did he choose to go to Scotland?
Freeman was let go at 18 years old I believe.
Watson was deemed too small, despite the Academy head coaches wanting to keep him was let go at 19 also.
sam16111986
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by sam16111986 »

RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:55 pm
Tiglon wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:49 pm :smt044 ok so we've kicked out some brilliant players, I take it back!
RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:14 pm

Tommy Freeman.
Fair enough, didn't know he was at the Tigers academy, he is doing pretty well for himself! I don't remember hearing of him here, was he let go at a younger age?
ABClub wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:39 pm Going back a lot further but definitely Hamish Watson.
Was Watson rejected or did he choose to go to Scotland?
Freeman was let go at 18 years old I believe.
Watson was deemed too small, despite the Academy head coaches wanting to keep him was let go at 19 also.
Yeah Watson ended up with Scotland 7s didn't he?

I didn't know we'd overlooked Freeman, bit of an error there. Maybe fancied Steward more but both in the same back three would have worked given Freeman's pace and scoring record mainly on the wing at Saints. Maybe we can tempt him back later on.
ABClub
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by ABClub »

Mish was released, yeah. He shared a screenshot of a note he wrote after the meeting with the academy head coach to say he wasn't getting a contract. Basically the academy coach wanted to keep him on but the senior coaches chose not to.
sk 88
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

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ABClub wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:39 pm Going back a lot further but definitely Hamish Watson.
Hmmmmm.

Not sure, he really wasn't a stand out when I saw him at 18s and reserves then played a lot of rugby at lower levels & 7s and improved drastically to reach his heights. Players react and develop differently, personally I wouldn't really count that against the staff at the time. All the players have POTENTIAL, that's why they've got this far. A few guys developing after leaving as teenagers is to be expected.
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RagingBull
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

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Sounded like all the academy staff rated him though.
sk 88
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by sk 88 »

RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:14 pm
Tiglon wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:37 pm I'm confident if he's good enough he will be signed up. I know some people like to complain about who we've let go, but I'm struggling to think of an academy product who we've not offered a senior contract to and has gone on to be a top player at another club, so I have faith in the clubs judgement.
Tommy Freeman.
So on Freeman, he is the same age, position and from the same county as Freddie Steward. From his own telling he was asked to go to one of the "good to great" partner schools at 16 (I think Brooksby) but chose to go to Moulton instead.
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sk 88
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

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RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:39 pm Sounded like all the academy staff rated him though.
They say that now he's a Lions player. There was no chat about it at the time. Colour me cynical I guess.
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

I get having the likes of Freeman and Watson go on to be successful without us is disappointing, though it sounds like if the coaches were a bit split on them then they "nearly" got the contract.

Lets look at the positives though. In that time we've also got a very good hit rate in successfully converting youngsters into top players. There's always going to be some missed and some that get away, but just look at who we've turned into top pros, especially since Borthwick has come in.
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RagingBull
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by RagingBull »

sk 88 wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:42 pm
RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:39 pm Sounded like all the academy staff rated him though.
They say that now he's a Lions player. There was no chat about it at the time. Colour me cynical I guess.
I mean watson literally posted a instagram thing from them about 4 years ago from a iphone note written in 2011 of what was said to him at the time.
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

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Pretty sure Watson was playing International Age Group when he was with us.

That would be Cockers/MOC time?
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RagingBull
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by RagingBull »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:43 pm I get having the likes of Freeman and Watson go on to be successful without us is disappointing, though it sounds like if the coaches were a bit split on them then they "nearly" got the contract.

Lets look at the positives though. In that time we've also got a very good hit rate in successfully converting youngsters into top players. There's always going to be some missed and some that get away, but just look at who we've turned into top pros, especially since Borthwick has come in.
No one is being negative it was just asked what players have tigers let through the nets and gone on to do well and they were some of the answers no one even saying it's disappointing.
sk 88
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

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RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:45 pm
sk 88 wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:42 pm
RagingBull wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:39 pm Sounded like all the academy staff rated him though.
They say that now he's a Lions player. There was no chat about it at the time. Colour me cynical I guess.
I mean watson literally posted a instagram thing from them about 4 years ago from a iphone note written in 2011 of what was said to him at the time.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BjCfb4fleva/

I don't want to get overly on this, but "Oh I'd keep you but it's the guys upstairs" is soft landing 101 for guys you don't want to burn bridges with.

I'm guessing the guy with the crossed out name is Matt Everard (it ends in a d at least and looking at the 2nd team stats I kept from that time he left the same summer).
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Tiglon
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by Tiglon »

Well done to both of them for making it after early rejections, shows their character :smt023

It would be great if we could get it right all the time, but it's not always easy to predict how good a teenager will become. I don't think Freeman ever played for England age groups, and was never mentioned on here until long after he left Tigers. Watson was noted on here for selection with Scotland U20s, but not a single comment when he was released. Both perhaps examples of youth setups rating size too highly...
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by DeadlyDunc »

One of Cockers and MOC big failings was never really trusting the young players coming through. Those that did were world class (Manu, YBY the obvious examples) so impossible to ignore.

The perhaps more squad level players you need were the ones that never got a chance - Wells left and came back, Green, Clare, Balmain, Watson, Lewington etc could have been valuable players for us over a period when we were declining and instead signing journeymen rubbish from the likes of Treviso.

I accept the academy wasn’t at its finest but equally if you know the top man prefers older players it’s probably disheartening.
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

DeadlyDunc wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:34 am One of Cockers and MOC big failings was never really trusting the young players coming through. Those that did were world class (Manu, YBY the obvious examples) so impossible to ignore.

The perhaps more squad level players you need were the ones that never got a chance - Wells left and came back, Green, Clare, Balmain, Watson, Lewington etc could have been valuable players for us over a period when we were declining and instead signing journeymen rubbish from the likes of Treviso.

I accept the academy wasn’t at its finest but equally if you know the top man prefers older players it’s probably disheartening.
We were never looking beyond the next game, thats why Cockers was never going to be a very good DOR, note that Borthwick is Head Coach not a DOR, but hopefully he does work with the Academy in some aspect, one presumes that a fair amount is under the "Invisible" Leigh Jones.
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