Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

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northerntiger
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by northerntiger »

“Think of the volume of players we have. Everyone talks about how many young players there are, but the reality is we waste so much and destroy so much talent through the academy system.

People might read this and think, 'hang on, we have a great academy system'. No, we don't. It's terrible. Hundreds of kids are brought in - take Leicester's reach as far as Norfolk and as wide as Sheffield - and we destroy about 90 per cent of them, if not more.

You can point to Maro Itoje and Freddie Steward as academy success stories, but those guys would have worked their way up through the ranks anyway. They would find their way into teams through a natural progression, rather than an academy. Coaches at that level might think what I'm saying is total rubbish, but it's not. What you get from one player, you sacrifice for a hundred more.

For every hundred players in an academy, one gets a professional contract. Do the maths on that at home. Are you telling me the other 99 kids who don't get a professional contract are not good enough? I don't think that's the case. The other 99 are good enough, just not currently, otherwise they would not have been spotted in the first place.

Think of how many top players were late developers. Lawrence Dallaglio wasn't in an academy. Martin Johnson didn't start playing rugby until much later. Look at Alex Dombrandt now - went to Cardiff Met, played rugby there, now he's a Test No 8.

We have to close all of the academies straight away, so they are gone by next season. I say that because you are giving 15- and 16-year-old boys a club tracksuit and when they get that it means more to them than their education. That is a generalisation and there are going to be exceptions, but those kids in terms of their education would develop slightly better if they were not in an academy. When you're 16 and Leicester or Sale or whoever wants you, you don't care about your maths A-levels. And nor should you, because you have to become dedicated to be a professional player.”

The above is part of an article by Austin Healey in the DT and I think he’s got a point. Players in an academy have only a couple of seasons to get a pro contract. Inevitably some who may develop late will be missed, and come back to bite us. Equally inevitably, some will just disappear.
jgriffin
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by jgriffin »

Agree 100% but would add the rider that all the regional and county selectors are sacked. For my mind that is also where talent is dumped, often for unpleasant reasons. Make all exposure by mass sessions, as with intros to women's rugby, make everything skill based/size stratified to even that bit up. Rugby in England and Wales wastes talent.
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Personally I think if players left the academy with nothing else then it would be a travesty, but when Bondi interviewed the academy manager last year he talked heavily about how our academy looks after the academic side not just the rugby side. Just look at Ilione who's getting a medical degree also...
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RagingBull
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by RagingBull »

I think there should be a healthier way of doing things.
A lot relies on the Academy Manager (I rate our current one very highly in Wilks)

If I was too look at previous academies intakes I would imagine the majority are either playing Pro rugby/Championship/Nat 1 or involved in Universities.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case for most clubs now.
Most clubs are linked with at least 1 university now even a few Championship clubs are such as Ealing with Brunel and Nottingham with NTU. A good example is a former Tigers back Rower Jordan Tebbatt looked very promising didn't get a contract went to MMU Sale spotted him now he has a contract with them, likewise the reverse with Dan Kelly who went to Loughborough.

I feel that Austin is just being a bit outdated in how clubs now operate and even players operate I think Genge said on his podcast it's amazing how different younger players are too when he was coming up the academy most younger players already have an idea of what they want to do after rugby now and are taking courses etc whilst training eight now.

Most clubs now are wanting to find more players from different pathways just if anything from a cost POV. Also being real Rugby is no different from other walks of life sometimes Academics isn't for that person rather than focused too much on rugby.
LekkerTigers
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by LekkerTigers »

Anyone know if there’s any way to watch the England u18 match against France at 3:30?
Tiglon
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by Tiglon »

Austin Healey wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:28 pm For every hundred players in an academy, one gets a professional contract. Do the maths on that at home. Are you telling me the other 99 kids who don't get a professional contract are not good enough? I don't think that's the case. The other 99 are good enough, just not currently, otherwise they would not have been spotted in the first place.
Ok, I'll have a go at doing the maths at home. Assuming that say 20 kids join each Premiership academy each year (I'd guess it's a lot more, but I have no idea)...

So if all those kids are good enough and all get a pro contract, that means 20 new pro players at each club every year. Let's imagine that because they are all good enough, they go on to play pro rugby for 15 years each.

By the time the first one of those players retires, each club has 300 pro players. With an average salary of £100,000 each club has a total wage bill of £30m per year. Ticket prices have to increase 400% to pay for all these rugby players, most of whom will never actually play rugby - but hey, they're "good enough" so they deserve a contract, right?

Austin should stick to being a sub-standard comedian who used to be very good at rugby.
Tamworthtiger
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by Tamworthtiger »

Six academy players selected for England U 17 north/ south festival.
mightymouse
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by mightymouse »

Actually I’m not sure it’s true that just because a kid has a club tracksuit he forgets education, only to be dumped by the club later. There are of course academy players who eat sleep think nothing but rugby and don’t do well at A level but you could say that about a lot of kids and a lot of “hobbies”, football probably one of the worst in that respect.
However this is a very individual thing and depends on the player .. I think we should give the kids and and their parents and the schools a bit more credit than that. I happen to know of a current academy player who has also
Played for England age group who has no intention of trying to turn pro and has a University/ career path thought out just like any other 18 year old.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

https://youtu.be/9JxSWKgzz2I

In this interview they talk about how they're trying to make rounded players who have other interests and other plans in life.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
johnthegriff
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by johnthegriff »

Young players mature physically and develop as rugby players at different rates. Our academy spreads its net wide spotting the best potential players, at age 16 after GCSE we narrow the field, we try to encourage potential players to attend a select range of schools to facilitate attendance at training and matches whilst they study for A Level, B Tech or what ever appropriate course they are following. After two years there has to be a further selection, some guys will have decided they do not want a career in rugby, some will choose to go to University locally and continue their rugby with a place in the Senior Academy, there is currently no competition that Senior Academy teams can play other than possible inclusion in A League or Premier Cup teams, selection for the Senior Academy has to take into consideration not just individual ability at that time but also position played, other players in that position and the individuals potential for further development. A number of years ago I was shocked when the club released Everard, England Under 20 captain and to me a certainty as a future first team player, I expressed my thoughts to those that had been involved in the decision making and was told that in their opinion he had plateaued, an examination of the players subsequent career probably shows that they were right.
It is just impossible to keep every youngster and pay and play them, tight forwards especially have to be given time to mature and they will benefit from game time at a lower level possibly returning when they are man grown like Harry Wells. Mistakes will be made, some kept will not achieve the heights we hoped others possibly will be released and become stars elsewhere but maybe had they stayed they would have stagnated through lack of game time.
jgriffin
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by jgriffin »

The problem has always been lower down the line, attracting scouts etc. The scouting of talent in other sports that is occurring in both men's and women's rugby is a belated but very welcome development IMO.
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RagingBull
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by RagingBull »

Tamworthtiger wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:59 pm Six academy players selected for England U 17 north/ south festival.
For those interested
Harry Clarke (Hooker)
Alex Garrett (Wing)
Ben Taylor (10/15)
George Perkins (Openside)
Tom Wand (Prop)
Malelili Satala (Wing)
Last edited by RagingBull on Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by Rugbygramps »

Mentioned in the u20s thread but very encouraging that 5 tigers in the u20 and there seems to be a reasonable chance that all 5 could move into the senior squad
Tamworthtiger
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by Tamworthtiger »

Congratulations on graduation to all the academy squad.
Believe 7 full development contacts have been offered and one part-time one.
Good luck to those not offered contracts.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Leicester Tigers Academy 2021/22

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Tamworthtiger wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:57 am Congratulations on graduation to all the academy squad.
Believe 7 full development contacts have been offered and one part-time one.
Good luck to those not offered contracts.
8 is quite a big number to take on into the development squad. Wonder if this is the moneyball stuff filtering through, a fact that more development needs to take place due to covid or it's an especially strong year.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
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