Covid passports to be required?

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Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:22 pm

they have been doing spot checks at LCFC all season, our last home game was the first where I wasn't checked, if you have the NHS app you can bring your vaccination status up on that and show that as proof. I always do it on the walk to the stadium and take a screenshot, the delays are from people that don't get their proof ready.

I wouldn't delay kick offs either, it will make people come more prepared next time

Grimlish
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Grimlish » Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:33 pm

A note on what the regulations were in France for those going to the game yesterday.

For the game
1) Every venue, be it a hostelry or event, requires a vaccination certificate on entry with most people
providing that via a QR code on their phone (NHS app QR codes worked every time). So that applied at the stadium. Because it happens everywhere it’s not an issue at any specific venue.

2) Electronic ticket check.

3) The most thorough frisking I’ve ever had - at least on a par with the sort you get if you set off the scanners at the airport.

4) Near total compliance with mask wearing unless actively eating/drinking.

In the city centre - there was an order requiring mask wearing everywhere in a specified zone ie indoors/outdoors. Mostly observed very well during daylight hours although as the evenings went on that dissipated somewhat.

And for the journey - LFT to be allowed in + vaccination status + declaration of honour (‘I don’t have covid and
Haven’t been in contact w anyone I know to have Covid’). LFT to return + UK Govt locator form + PCR no later than Day 2 of return.

Airline requesting the documents be uploaded in advance of travel but also requiring they are produced in paper form. All forms requiring passport number as a common identifier - passports numbers and photos checked by all test providers. LFTs were administered ie not self-tests.

For me the French are not especially renowned for adherence to state imposition on personal freedoms - Liberté, Fraternité etc - but they are making the best of difficult times and living with what seem to me to be significantly tougher rules than we have here in the UK.

So now home and awaiting the result of that PCR…

loretta
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by loretta » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:42 am

Grimlish wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:33 pm
LFTs were administered ie not self-tests.

Self-administered LFTs, if the type freely available from chemists etc, are meaningless as proof at a gate/door etc unless done at the time and people are prepared to hang around for the result! Otherwise you have no confirmed link to the subject so no traceability, no date, too easy to get around. They can be useful for your own peace of mind, but hopeless as proof to others.
I've got a bad feeling about this.

TigerintheCatStand
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by TigerintheCatStand » Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:47 am

Well they are not "meaningless" as a majority (I won't say vast majority) will comply and that will help but you are right they are easily circumnavigated by those who don't give a damn.

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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by loretta » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:33 am

TigerintheCatStand wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:47 am
Well they are not "meaningless" as a majority (I won't say vast majority) will comply and that will help but you are right they are easily circumnavigated by those who don't give a damn.
The problem is that, while they have meaning as a test, they do not as proof unless they can be linked to the individual. For the honest amongst us, we might as well just be asked to do one at home before coming to the game and obviously if it's positive, we stay at home! Nobody will present a positive test at the gate. For the others, well, it makes no difference what you do if the rules are easily circumvented.

On a slightly different note, I hope the QR readers will indicate if a covid passport image has already been used by someone else on that day, as it's all too easy to take a screenshot and pass it around. At least they have a name on them, though
I've got a bad feeling about this.

Scott1
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Scott1 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:59 am

I believe every single person who attends should take a test regardless if they are vaccinated or not.

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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by TigerintheCatStand » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:00 am

That was exactly the point I was making - they are not meaningless as you originally said; they help, but they are easily circumnavigated which is a problem.

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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Grimlish » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:21 am

All our systems require a degree of trust that others respect the rules and/or ‘do the right thing’. How else do we ever drive on our roads? Of course there are workarounds to ‘restrictions’ but I honestly believe the great majority understand the need for personal responsibility and personal adherence to such rules. This epidemic has us all questioning those values and our responses. Some have people they must protect who are more at risk than say 90 or 95 or 99 % of the rest of the population - it’s not possible to legislate for those personal decisions and judgements, so we should try to ensure they informed judgements. The people at risk in my life don’t want the world to stop because of them - and that would include going to a rugby match or a pub or any such event.
Loretta’s by-line is ‘I find your lack of faith ...... disturbing’. Well quite so. I have faith that enough people are well intentioned and try to do the right thing. I am also rapidly acquiring faith in the judgement of our Head Coach. Both take time to develop and can be lost as well as gained.

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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by loretta » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:43 am

Grimlish wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:21 am
All our systems require a degree of trust that others respect the rules and/or ‘do the right thing’. How else do we ever drive on our roads? Of course there are workarounds to ‘restrictions’ but I honestly believe the great majority understand the need for personal responsibility and personal adherence to such rules. This epidemic has us all questioning those values and our responses. Some have people they must protect who are more at risk than say 90 or 95 or 99 % of the rest of the population - it’s not possible to legislate for those personal decisions and judgements, so we should try to ensure they informed judgements. The people at risk in my life don’t want the world to stop because of them - and that would include going to a rugby match or a pub or any such event.
Loretta’s by-line is ‘I find your lack of faith ...... disturbing’. Well quite so. I have faith that enough people are well intentioned and try to do the right thing. I am also rapidly acquiring faith in the judgement of our Head Coach. Both take time to develop and can be lost as well as gained.
I agree with most of your points Grimlish. I have faith in many things, that most people will "do the right thing", certainly. That our Head Coach knows what he's doing, ditto. The maths that show that a couple of infected people in MWWR are highly unlikely to come close enough to infect me, again, ditto. Faith in my triple jab status, absolutely. But that wasn't really my point. I just have no faith in a process that is so clearly flawed. Make it a PCR and/or Covid Passport, or we really are putting our faith in humanity when we attend. I'm happy with doing either.
I've got a bad feeling about this.

Scott1
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Scott1 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:53 am

To further add to my earlier post I don't believe vaccine passports are enough. If i have a test that proves im negative I'm not comfortable sitting next to anyone who hasn't had a test,even if vaccinated as I could still catch covid from them. I believe every single fan should be tested every game for complete safety.

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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Scott1 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:04 am

Just a quick heads up. The NHS website is down for booking boosters and they have ran out of LF tests. So if that's not fixed, how is it gonna work Sunday?

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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Tigerbeat » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:11 am

Scott1 wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:04 am
Just a quick heads up. The NHS website is down for booking boosters and they have ran out of LF tests. So if that's not fixed, how is it gonna work Sunday?
Lateral Flow Tests are available from most Pharmacies.
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by GB72 » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:12 am

You only need 2 jabs for the vaccine passport (or one if that is all you were eligible for) at the moment and so the booster website being down should not prove an issue. For the unvaccinated, the lack of later flow tests is more of an issue and if they are not back in stock, they may not be able to attend. That said, I am sure that if people ask around, they can find one from a friend. My wife always has a few in as she needs to take an LFT before she can go on site for work.

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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by loretta » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:18 am

Tigerbeat wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:11 am
Scott1 wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:04 am
Just a quick heads up. The NHS website is down for booking boosters and they have ran out of LF tests. So if that's not fixed, how is it gonna work Sunday?
Lateral Flow Tests are available from most Pharmacies.
But, if you can't get one, and you've not been vaccinated, you can't go.
I've got a bad feeling about this.

Grimlish
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Re: Covid passports to be required?

Post by Grimlish » Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:19 am

How’s it gonna work Sunday?

Delta remains the predominant variant which anyone who is double jabbed is adequately protected from, and a triple jab makes very sure.

If say there are 20k Omicron cases in the UK by Sunday that’s still a tiny percentage of the whole population. At current rates there will be c45% coverage of triple vaccination by Sunday, so you can effectively halve the ‘one in ….’ figure. Instruct people once again not to come if they have symptoms and to use the lateral flows they should already have at home and you rule out the vast majority of potential cases anyway. That seems enough for me for now. Have some faith in other people and don’t panic.

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