Creeping around the ruck

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WirralExile
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Creeping around the ruck

Post by WirralExile »

In the Sarries v Sale match on Sunday, a number of times the Sarries players appeared to be creeping around the side of the ruck, clearly with the intent of obstructing the scrum half as soon as they have the ball. The creeping players still had a hand on the players in the ruck, but they were clearly no longer behind the back foot. Austin picked this up a number of times but Ben seemed to be of the opinion it was OK as long as they kept their bind on the ruck. It didn't look right to me and only seemed to be Sarries doing it.

Sarries do appear to like to push the boundaries of the laws - their tackling isn't always legal (e.g. Farrell is invariably too high) but rarely pinged by the ref.

I really hope this is stopped before it gains any momentum with other teams.
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LekkerTigers
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by LekkerTigers »

If it counters the caterpillar ruck, I’m fine with it.
BengalTiger
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by BengalTiger »

This was supposed to be one of those subjects that was clarified at the end of last season, to be bound into a ruck or scrum, the player must have at least the full length of one arm on the other players in the ruck/ scrum, just touching with your hands is not bound! there has been occasions this season where a player has only his hands on the ruck with the ball at his feet and the ref has called the ball out, the same rules apply to the scrum, if you are not bound and in front of the ball you are offside and must retreat.
To me this is another area where the refs let themselves down by not being consistent in their interpretation, it is easy to see and enforce some just choose to ignore it!
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by kpj tiger »

WirralExile wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:01 am In the Sarries v Sale match on Sunday, a number of times the Sarries players appeared to be creeping around the side of the ruck, clearly with the intent of obstructing the scrum half as soon as they have the ball. The creeping players still had a hand on the players in the ruck, but they were clearly no longer behind the back foot. Austin picked this up a number of times but Ben seemed to be of the opinion it was OK as long as they kept their bind on the ruck. It didn't look right to me and only seemed to be Sarries doing it.

Sarries do appear to like to push the boundaries of the laws - their tackling isn't always legal (e.g. Farrell is invariably too high) but rarely pinged by the ref.

I really hope this is stopped before it gains any momentum with other teams.
Reportedly it was given the green light by World Rugby in advance of the game
Cardiff Tig
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Cardiff Tig »

WirralExile wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:01 am In the Sarries v Sale match on Sunday, a number of times the Sarries players appeared to be creeping around the side of the ruck, clearly with the intent of obstructing the scrum half as soon as they have the ball. The creeping players still had a hand on the players in the ruck, but they were clearly no longer behind the back foot. Austin picked this up a number of times but Ben seemed to be of the opinion it was OK as long as they kept their bind on the ruck. It didn't look right to me and only seemed to be Sarries doing it.

Sarries do appear to like to push the boundaries of the laws - their tackling isn't always legal (e.g. Farrell is invariably too high) but rarely pinged by the ref.

I really hope this is stopped before it gains any momentum with other teams.
I have no problem with any team using the rules to their advantage.

I don't think it will catch-on, to be honest. Or at least the defending team will just do the same rather than forming the caterpillar to protect the scrum-half so the tactic will be nullified.
Old Hob
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Old Hob »

All the Saracens players seemed to me to be as fully bound as the law requires. The ruck is mis-named anyway as no actual rucking goes on!
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Jacko27
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Jacko27 »

Agree with Bengal Tiger that it all hinges on the definition of what is a "bind". Is it fingers gripping team mate's shirt (which was how Sarries seemed to be interpreting it last weekend - with the ref's approval) or is it having at least part of the arm in close contact with a team mate. As long as all referees interpret it consistently there's nothing wrong with that first definition and if so other clubs (including us) should consider using the "Sarries' tactic although as far as I remember it wasn't particularly effective and didn't actually work in blocking any of the Sale SH's clearance kicks.
bendy
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by bendy »

Was it the Gloucester match when Ford was judged to be 'bound' on to one of our players, just by having his hand lightly resting on the player's back for about a second, leading to a try for the opposition as one of their players cleaned Ford right out?

IF that's 'binding', then the current interpretation really doesn't need much.
TigerCam
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by TigerCam »

LekkerTigers wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:23 am If it counters the caterpillar ruck, I’m fine with it.
Get rid of both. If a side is pressured into a defensive ruck then they should deal with it without the caterpillar. Likewise no creep around the ruck - bodies behind the back foot.
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Old Hob
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Old Hob »

The caterpillar is, I think, difficult to legislate against. If all of the team can effectively join then the length cannot be limited. We need a, "No, that's just silly. Stop it" law
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Scott1
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Scott1 »

For me the caterpillar is very easy to outlaw. Once the ruck is formed and the ball is there if there isn't an attempted counter ruck then no other player from the team shielding the ball is allowed to bind on. Easy to police imo and it needs to be gotten rid of!
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Offside
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Offside »

Scott1 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:26 pm For me the caterpillar is very easy to outlaw. Once the ruck is formed and the ball is there if there isn't an attempted counter ruck then no other player from the team shielding the ball is allowed to bind on. Easy to police imo and it needs to be gotten rid of!
Agreed
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Tigerbeat »

Scott1 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:26 pm For me the caterpillar is very easy to outlaw. Once the ruck is formed and the ball is there if there isn't an attempted counter ruck then no other player from the team shielding the ball is allowed to bind on. Easy to police imo and it needs to be gotten rid of!

Have no real issue with the Caterpillar in form but limit it to one or two players to give some protection and time to the scrum half.
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Old Hob
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by Old Hob »

Scott1 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:26 pm For me the caterpillar is very easy to outlaw. Once the ruck is formed and the ball is there if there isn't an attempted counter ruck then no other player from the team shielding the ball is allowed to bind on. Easy to police imo and it needs to be gotten rid of!
And if there is, what then? Can I now join? Not so easy to legislate for unless you fundamentally change the game and say when the Ref calls "ruck" then everything freezes. I would like it to be got rid of (I'm not American)
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mol2
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Re: Creeping around the ruck

Post by mol2 »

Perhaps changing the laws to say you may not bind to the player at the back of a ruck until that player is already bound to 2 players or immediately binds to 2 players. Will they need a caterpillar if it means it being 2 players wide and tying relatively more into the ruck.
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