Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Rizzo, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
Tiglon
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:54 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by Tiglon » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:07 pm

Offside wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:56 pm
There were some odd reffing decisions.
Clare Hobnet is the TMO that said Cole having his leg lifted in the maul was OK as he was put down carefully - wrong, cannot lift leg in maul.
In this game it is the hand on head vs high tackle. The player hitting the herd moved Freddie towards the touch line. Without his intervention it is a try so penalty try.
Marler was dropping people out of the maul when Tigers were defending it. He did it repeatedly three times in the same maul in front of Tempo. You are not allowed to pull players out of a maul. No reaction from the officiating team. I thought Genge looked like he was rolling in at the scrums but he certainly thought there was something else going on.
Tigers deserved the win but Quins showed themselves to be a more rounded outfit than they have been credited with being.
Looked to me like Collier was scrummaging diagonally and into Montoya at times, but I'm no scrum expert.

Some odd calls from the officials, but I could say that pretty much every match so I just kind of accept it these days. At least they're consistently inconsistent.

Not the greatest performance by Tigers but still some exceptional stuff, plenty of good stuff and plenty that will get better. Excited for Europe!

Darc Tiger
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6042
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:53 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by Darc Tiger » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:08 pm

My love for DK grows each game!

If Steward is our anchor, Kelly is the rock.

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5523
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:17 pm

OakhamTiger32 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:24 pm
In what was a very tight game I just remembered that Dombrandt collided with Tempo early on when he looked almost certain to score.. there was a fairly sizeable hole and were it not for a strategically placed referee it could have been a different result. That said we definitely deserved the win but I reckon the Quins fans will have a few gripes about the officials too
Genge would have 100% got to him. It would have been a side on tackle so I don't know if it would have been enough but he would have definitely got there.

Great Tigers performance, some big performances from some lads. Took the a couple of harsh calls against us out of the game and got the result which we wouldn't have done last season. Some clever tactics from the coaches and Youngs pulled out a performance the like of which we haven't see in years. He was outstanding.

longlivethecrumbie
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1790
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by longlivethecrumbie » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:18 pm

I'm surprised that they didn't send Nadolo, Wiese et al down Smith's channel more than they did. Kelly was immense, Lenny put in a good shift. Care seemed more interested in telling the touch judge where he and the ref had gone wrong. - did make me chuckle when he'd completely vacated the blind side guard position at the near touchline scrum leaving Ben Youngs acres of time and space to skate through.

A win is a win, but some of the play looked rusty after the bye week.

On to Europe now!

OakhamTiger32
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4456
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:01 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by OakhamTiger32 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:08 am

sam16111986 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:17 pm
OakhamTiger32 wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:24 pm
In what was a very tight game I just remembered that Dombrandt collided with Tempo early on when he looked almost certain to score.. there was a fairly sizeable hole and were it not for a strategically placed referee it could have been a different result. That said we definitely deserved the win but I reckon the Quins fans will have a few gripes about the officials too
Great Tigers performance, some big performances from some lads. Took the a couple of harsh calls against us out of the game and got the result which we wouldn't have done last season.
I guess that’s the thing. The officiating hasn’t changed and is as bizarre at times as last season but what has changed is we have found a way to win these tight encounters despite the questionable calls.

Hodnett’s Hall of Horrors:

Ball thrown into Moroni’s outstretched hand from very close by, no time to react, suggests a yellow card for deliberate knock on. (Last season vs Bristol)

Leg lift on Cole in the maul followed by drop to the floor, nothing given!

Hand on Stewards head shepherding him into touch preventing a try, nothing given!

I’m just glad we have found a way to win these games now so these decisions don’t become the deciding factor!
Oakham lad born and bred, Tigers season ticket holder who is enjoying steady progression back towards the good old days!

kk20gb30
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2819
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:01 pm
Location: Over The Hills & Far Away

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by kk20gb30 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:31 am

An enthralling , compelling and engrossing game - made all the more so by the fact that neither side were at their best.With points at stake it is always (for me) about getting there and not how you get there.The result is what matters above all, and it was a fine result.
Different eyes however see different things - or perhaps see the same thing , just interpret them differently.For those arguing that the kicking to Green was a deliberate ploy and was effective in execution I would counter by saying that it was effective approx 50% of the time (first half especially) when the kick allowed time enough to pressurize the player.The player would have been more occupied either being forced to collect from space and/or made to turn - too many times it was 'down the throat' and we were fortunate that 'quins were just as profligate in their response ...
For me the Yellow to Wiese was justifiable - you simply cannot tackle like that to that area of the body and expect to escape punishment.It was concerning that we were perhaps a little outsmarted at Scrum time by 'quins or was it that that the Ref called every 50-50 in their favour ? We are just too far from the action to see.
Harlequins though have improved massively in set defence so great credit must go to their coaching team in adding steel to flamboyance.Kudos to them.Credit to Leicester however for overcoming this twin threat.
In most other aspects I would concur that it was a great win and controlled performance.For me though with expectation comes disappointment so it is and always will be feet firmly on the ground.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....

baz1664
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1088
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:47 pm
Location: LEICESTER!!

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by baz1664 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:12 pm

The issue with the Wiese yellow card is that the nosey TMO who has the best angles and replays called it as penalty only, there were lots of necks roles, no arms tackle throughout the game that were missed, also a prime example of no consistency is the hand on the head when the player was clearly pulled into touch by the Quins player, Tempest said it was not part of the tackle, absolute garbage, everyone could see the player impacted him which resulted into him going into touch, it was clear the player couldn’t make the tackle legally as he was over stretching hence contact to the head, illegal, yellow card and pen try everyday of the week, also the TMO totally ignores it!! The reports on match officials should be made public so we can read there justification and to see if the higher powers agree with there bizarre decision making which isn’t by the letter of the laws.

chris111
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:15 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by chris111 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:33 pm

baz1664 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:12 pm
The issue with the Wiese yellow card is that the nosey TMO who has the best angles and replays called it as penalty only, there were lots of necks roles, no arms tackle throughout the game that were missed, also a prime example of no consistency is the hand on the head when the player was clearly pulled into touch by the Quins player, Tempest said it was not part of the tackle, absolute garbage, everyone could see the player impacted him which resulted into him going into touch, it was clear the player couldn’t make the tackle legally as he was over stretching hence contact to the head, illegal, yellow card and pen try everyday of the week, also the TMO totally ignores it!! The reports on match officials should be made public so we can read there justification and to see if the higher powers agree with there bizarre decision making which isn’t by the letter of the laws.
The officials work as a team…so calling the TMO “nosey” is way wide of the mark, and a little disrespectful of their role. It’s their job to intervene and have a discussion with the referee - and if they stayed silent on an incident instead of intervening to Tigers’ advantage I’m sure there’d be plenty piling on to say so! Ultimately the referee has the final say, and on this occasion they clearly decided to overrule the TMO. I didn’t hear the discussion as I was at WR…but frankly it looked like a yellow to me even from my distant vantage point!

Old Hob
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3397
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by Old Hob » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:42 pm

You're right, Chris and publishing reports on officials would be disastrous and humiliating. Would you like all your appraisals and school reports published?
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

baz1664
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1088
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:47 pm
Location: LEICESTER!!

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by baz1664 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:52 pm

chris111 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:33 pm
[quote=baz1664 post_id=800250 time=<a href="tel:1638792739">1638792739</a> user_id=101]
The issue with the Wiese yellow card is that the nosey TMO who has the best angles and replays called it as penalty only, there were lots of necks roles, no arms tackle throughout the game that were missed, also a prime example of no consistency is the hand on the head when the player was clearly pulled into touch by the Quins player, Tempest said it was not part of the tackle, absolute garbage, everyone could see the player impacted him which resulted into him going into touch, it was clear the player couldn’t make the tackle legally as he was over stretching hence contact to the head, illegal, yellow card and pen try everyday of the week, also the TMO totally ignores it!! The reports on match officials should be made public so we can read there justification and to see if the higher powers agree with there bizarre decision making which isn’t by the letter of the laws.
The officials work as a team…so calling the TMO “nosey” is way wide of the mark, and a little disrespectful of their role. It’s their job to intervene and have a discussion with the referee - and if they stayed silent on an incident instead of intervening to Tigers’ advantage I’m sure there’d be plenty piling on to say so! Ultimately the referee has the final say, and on this occasion they clearly decided to overrule the TMO. I didn’t hear the discussion as I was at WR…but frankly it looked like a yellow to me even from my distant vantage point!
[/quote]

You do have the over involved TMOs who everyone has clearly heard before making the old I have a better angle, check again, check again to the ref who are trying to influence decisions already made in the refs head.

Whats your theory on the hand on the head incident? That was on TV, seen by ref and TMO, the correct decision?

As for the reports being made public, I 100% think they should, in this current climate it’s all about transparency, what would be humiliating about someone actually saying they made the wrong decisions in hindsight?

Old Hob
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3397
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by Old Hob » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:04 pm

Quote "As for the reports being made public, I 100% think they should, in this current climate it’s all about transparency, what would be humiliating about someone actually saying they made the wrong decisions in hindsight?


Because it would be used against them this week. Players already try to bully the ref, (and Luke Pearce had to march Sarries back 3 times). Imagine what players like that would do with "You got that wrong last week..." info. Very destructive.

Newspaper pundits able to pore over appraisals too, would be horrendous. If I were a ref and reports were to be made public I'd resign at once.
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

Tigerbeat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6360
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: The big wide world

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by Tigerbeat » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:17 pm

New referees are assigned a mentor / coach, usually a former referee eg Martin Fox, Brian Campsall and they go and watch the games the ref is involved with and give feedback and coaching. They are only moved up the ladder when deemed ready and they are human beings and will make mistakes.
The review process means that they will learn from any mistakes and also give any observations as to how they can improve.
Publishing reports in the public domain will not do any good for the refs or any confidence that they may have.
They have to start somewhere and the pandemic has not helped with the development of upcoming refs as lower divisions were far more disrupted than the Premiership.
We have been fortunate to have refs like Wayne Barnes etc but they started out in the same way and were criticised and have got to where they are now.
SUPPORT THE MATT HAMPSON TRUST
www.matthampson.co.uk

fentiger
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2558
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: Wisbech

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by fentiger » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:10 pm

The 'controversy' with Jasper's yellow was caused, IMO, by Tempest over ruling TMO's advice that it was a penalty only! He was going with that when he seemed to have a lightbulb moment and went yellow! :smt017

chris111
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:15 pm

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by chris111 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:21 pm

baz1664 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:52 pm
chris111 wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:33 pm
[quote=baz1664 post_id=800250 time=<a href="tel:1638792739">1638792739</a> user_id=101]
The issue with the Wiese yellow card is that the nosey TMO who has the best angles and replays called it as penalty only, there were lots of necks roles, no arms tackle throughout the game that were missed, also a prime example of no consistency is the hand on the head when the player was clearly pulled into touch by the Quins player, Tempest said it was not part of the tackle, absolute garbage, everyone could see the player impacted him which resulted into him going into touch, it was clear the player couldn’t make the tackle legally as he was over stretching hence contact to the head, illegal, yellow card and pen try everyday of the week, also the TMO totally ignores it!! The reports on match officials should be made public so we can read there justification and to see if the higher powers agree with there bizarre decision making which isn’t by the letter of the laws.
The officials work as a team…so calling the TMO “nosey” is way wide of the mark, and a little disrespectful of their role. It’s their job to intervene and have a discussion with the referee - and if they stayed silent on an incident instead of intervening to Tigers’ advantage I’m sure there’d be plenty piling on to say so! Ultimately the referee has the final say, and on this occasion they clearly decided to overrule the TMO. I didn’t hear the discussion as I was at WR…but frankly it looked like a yellow to me even from my distant vantage point!
You do have the over involved TMOs who everyone has clearly heard before making the old I have a better angle, check again, check again to the ref who are trying to influence decisions already made in the refs head.

Whats your theory on the hand on the head incident? That was on TV, seen by ref and TMO, the correct decision?

As for the reports being made public, I 100% think they should, in this current climate it’s all about transparency, what would be humiliating about someone actually saying they made the wrong decisions in hindsight?
[/quote]

You seem to suggest that there’s something wrong with TMOs pointing out things the referee has missed - but isn’t that the point?! It’s having those different angles that enables infringements that would otherwise be missed to be penalised….what possible objection to this could there be?

I don’t know about the ‘hand on head’ incident - was showed on the big screens at the time but my eyesight isn’t good enough for me to be sure either way - and I’ve not heard the commentary either.

Mostly I just wish we had less chat about the officials on here - especially as it seems to be largely comprised of endless claims that officials are either useless (at best) and constantly make bad calls that disadvantage Tigers. Guess what? Try looking at the fan forum for our opponents and you’ll find the same officials are apparently desperate to hand the match to Tigers.

As for transparency - there is a transparent review system in place which Tigerbeat has explained. Opening this into the public domain would simply inhibit the honest appraisal/critical reflection that goes on there - not to mention feed the toxic beast that is social media.

Jimmy Skitz
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3785
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: Thurnby Lodge

Re: Tigers vs Quins - 05th December 2021 - 3-00pm

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:41 pm

TMO's aren't supposed to jump in for technical offences such as offside etc they are only supposed to check for foul play, some chime in on the technical stuff

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], sapajo, TigerXV and 2 guests