johnthegriff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Like the way the potential loss of Kelly is described as hitting one of the weaker areas of our squad then 4 or 5 alternatives to him are listed. We have depth in the squad now, anybody missing a game may not automatically get their place back when available.
Have to agree with this. Kelly has played well but so has Scott and others. We do have good cover at the moment for all positions although as we all know this can quickly change with what is an attritional game. It's a good feeling not to have to panic when a first choice player is not available for whatever reason.
Kelly is intelligent and should learn from this mistake.
If he was that intelligent he wouldn't have made the mistake in the first place.
I'm not so much concerned about the Tigers, more about his England chances?
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
johnthegriff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Like the way the potential loss of Kelly is described as hitting one of the weaker areas of our squad then 4 or 5 alternatives to him are listed. We have depth in the squad now, anybody missing a game may not automatically get their place back when available.
Have to agree with this. Kelly has played well but so has Scott and others. We do have good cover at the moment for all positions although as we all know this can quickly change with what is an attritional game. It's a good feeling not to have to panic when a first choice player is not available for whatever reason.
Kelly is intelligent and should learn from this mistake.
If he was that intelligent he wouldn't have made the mistake in the first place.
I'm not so much concerned about the Tigers, more about his England chances?
My, you’re a harsh judge - one mistake and you lack intelligence?! Please don’t ever think of entering the teaching profession, will you? Repeating the same mistake over and over again is a clear indication of poor judgement…but as far as I am aware this is not the case with Dan Kelly (is this his first citing?).
Oh yes, such a harsh judge.......did you not see the smiles?
Actually I am in the teaching profession, at a decent level, also with the stuff I teach mistakes are costly, so, however few there are, it pays not to make them in the first instance?
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Big Dai wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:23 pm
Oh yes, such a harsh judge.......did you not see the smiles?
Actually I am in the teaching profession, at a decent level, also with the stuff I teach mistakes are costly, so, however few there are, it pays not to make them in the first instance?
Sorry, Dai - I’ve never been good on interpreting emojis.
As a teacher myself, I’ve always adhered to the Benjamin Franklin adage that ‘the person that never makes a mistake will never make anything’!
Personally I doubt it will affect his England chances much...
Yes he smiled after, because we got the penalty, did he know he hit head first, maybe not.
One red card in a players history won't make much difference to international accolades, IF it starts becoming a trend then maybe that's a different matter, but at this stage it's all about how he reacts to this.
Plus citing doesn't mean guilty, our very own Jasper Wiese was cited following a game then found innocent just a week ago. (Personally I think he's guilty, but there is some mitigation IMO, such as the initial contact is with his right arm and the left follows through)
Yes I expect that now plans are in place to not have him play this weekend, but we will see the result Wednesday morning.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Big Dai wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:23 pm
Oh yes, such a harsh judge.......did you not see the smiles?
Actually I am in the teaching profession, at a decent level, also with the stuff I teach mistakes are costly, so, however few there are, it pays not to make them in the first instance?
Sorry, Dai - I’ve never been good on interpreting emojis.
As a teacher myself, I’ve always adhered to the Benjamin Franklin adage that ‘the person that never makes a mistake will never make anything’!
No worries.....having made a few myself you're possibly quite right however there is that thought.....can't remember who from..."It's good to learn from one's mistakes but better to learn from someone else's"
......so owning up to a few of my own passes a message on....
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
The slow mo actually makes it look better rather than worse, on first look I thought it was just a petulant assault but the slow mo makes it look like he was trying to keep the ball in play so more accidental than deliberate, we will see how the panel sees it.
To say the flop to the player on the ground is innocuous is an understatement to say the least. In no way was that endangering a players welfare. If rugby is going in this direction I’ll be surprised that no less than 50% of most players in teams stand to get cited after every match.
Rugby is a spectacle of an intense battle of warriors, to water down the physicality Is to dilute the extravaganza of the event.
Participants of such physical sports are made fully aware of the possible dangers of physical contact before embarking on a career in these type of occupations. Of course player welfare should be top of the agenda but not to the detriment and possible eradication of the game altogether.
There is no way that Kelly’s actions was worse than the guy who dived onto Johny May a couple of weeks ago but no doubt we will see the additional Tigers punishment applied.
It didn't look deliberate but you do have a duty of care, particularly when the other player is immobile on the ground. Contact was to the neck/head so with a guilty plea, possible mitigation and past record I think it will be 4-6 weeks, perhaps less if the beak has had a good day. Not long to go before we find out the worst.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!
Looks like he actually gets a little shove from Steward, but then does seem to lead with the upper arm/shoulder to the Sarries players head/shoulder.
Hopefully he just gets a couple of weeks, for first offence, and learns from it.
Some very green/red/white tinted glasses on this thread!!
Kelly did not get a 'shove' from Steward, Kelly had full vision of the player on the ground, had time to pull out but then targeted his head with force, no accident and knew what he was doing so no mitigation in the offence, the only mitigation will be pleading guilty and his previous good record. Stole a win there but who hasn't at some time or another?
Ridley was blindsided to the Kelly incident, his TMO however had time and the resources to review and refer but chose not to, his AR on that side was in full view so again - whoops, a helluva clanger from those 2 officials!
DingDong wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:44 pm
Some very green/red/white tinted glasses on this thread!!
Kelly did not get a 'shove' from Steward, Kelly had full vision of the player on the ground, had time to pull out but then targeted his head with force, no accident and knew what he was doing so no mitigation in the offence, the only mitigation will be pleading guilty and his previous good record. Stole a win there but who hasn't at some time or another?
Ridley was blindsided to the Kelly incident, his TMO however had time and the resources to review and refer but chose not to, his AR on that side was in full view so again - whoops, a helluva clanger from those 2 officials!
To be fair to the AR there was a pile of bodies with players all flying in. Can excuse him from missing the head contact. The TMO should have spotted with the benefit of replays but thankfully she didn't.
I don't think Kelly targeted the head intentionally it was more reckless. Trying to get Davies off the ball so that it could be freed before touch. Bit of desperation with the clock in the red and pressure running high.
He'll cop a ban 4-6 weeks, 50% reduction then down to 2-3 weeks. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
There were some worse incidents in this week ends Premiership, particularly when tries had already been scored! Kelly rush across and the wet conditions didn’t help and I was at the other end of the ground so couldn’t really see what happened!
Having watched the replay I think he could have avoided pushing the Sarries players head down. Take the win, take the ban, move on.
