Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

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RichieB
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by RichieB » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:18 am

Moving away from the topic of over-the-top celebrations, I’ve been reflecting on the game and how close we came to losing the match. I absolutely will take the win and recognise how we got the result, especially compared to a couple of seasons ago when we most likely wouldn’t have even got near a win.

However, I also consider the reasons why we were clearly second best in the first half. I know the replacements made a difference when the came on and apparently the wind was at our backs, BUT…….

Borthwick and some of the players have spoken about some tactical changes made at half-time. Anyone watching the match would have clearly seen the kicking was poor in parts and some bad decision making (as well as handling errors which might be forgivable in the conditions). My point is this, when coaching a team in their skills etc, we must look to encourage our senior/experienced players to make some changes during the match and not wait for half time. We have plenty of players who could and should be able to do that and I know it isn’t easy to do in the heat of a very competitive match.

I think it is something we can improve on - Ford, YBY for example in their positions need to be able to react during the game.

Old Hob
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by Old Hob » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:15 am

This is something that has been missing for a long time. Years ago, the then England captain Will Carling recorded a chat with the then England football captain to compare roles. Each was surprised. The soccer chap (don't know his name) had strict instructions about tactics and was not allowed to deviate until told by the management; Carling had the freedom to decide to change if Plan A wasn't working. Professionalism (or something) seems to have removed this freedom.
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

mol2
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by mol2 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:38 am

I think our first half tactics were poor.

We didin't kick to touch, with a strong breeze against us and an eminently capable full back in Malins receiving the ball comfortably. Mixing up kicking, marking and running sensibly. When they kicked they had the wind behind them do all other things being equal the wind would give their kicks 5 to 10m over ours.

On a windy, wet day and their hooker way off the pace we should have been kicking for touch when our forward momentum came to a halt.

That message should have gone out to the players after the first 10 minutes. If it did we just didn't execute it.

Crofty
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by Crofty » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:31 am

OakhamTiger32 wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:58 pm
Robespierre wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:45 pm
Discussion point:
"Is there room in today's game for Ben Earl's "over-enthusiastic" verbal celebrations after winning scrum penalties?"

In my opinion, it's a scourge on today's game and the RFU/World Rugby, or whoever, ought to insist that clubs discourage such behaviour on the pitch. Otherwise, younger players will observe and undoubtedly think that it's acceptable.
Maro Itoje also gets worked up on the pitch with his verbals, but Earl has taken it to a new untolerable level.
Encourage or congratulate your team mates for good play, by all means, but within reason.
I really hate this too.. very American! No place in rugby imho. Next we will see Football-esq celebrations after scoring a try! I’m all for celebrating but in an appropriate manner.

The one thing I would say about the 60 or so (not sure when he went off) minutes of whooping, screaming, yelling by Earl is.. how satisfying it was watching that only for them to lose in the 84th minute! Makes the victory even more enjoyable and the look on their faces.. Priceless.. I’m not one to gloat but.. I enjoyed that win all the more for Earl’s over exuberance :smt005
Minor point; American sports have penalties for Taunting and Unsportsmanlike Behaviour and those are never controversial calls when made...
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

"I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?"

iceman_19
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by iceman_19 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:57 am

We were lucky enough to have Martin Crowson (former Mercury Tigers correspondent) on the Rolling Maul last night to pull apart the Saracens game: he knows a thing or two about watching a team “win ugly” having seen several Tigers’ sides effectively copyright that mantra.

We also break a transfer exclusive (10-15 years too late)….

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/t ... 0537549990

TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:50 pm

I do wonder given if YBY's poor kicking performance on Saturday, may have been down to his thigh injury (the one hr pulled out of the Eng training squad for)

If you're compensating for an injury (even subconsciously) it may explain more so than wind (which he's dealt with through his career) his poor kicking
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:00 pm

Crofty wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:31 am
OakhamTiger32 wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:58 pm
Robespierre wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:45 pm
Discussion point:
"Is there room in today's game for Ben Earl's "over-enthusiastic" verbal celebrations after winning scrum penalties?"

In my opinion, it's a scourge on today's game and the RFU/World Rugby, or whoever, ought to insist that clubs discourage such behaviour on the pitch. Otherwise, younger players will observe and undoubtedly think that it's acceptable.
Maro Itoje also gets worked up on the pitch with his verbals, but Earl has taken it to a new untolerable level.
Encourage or congratulate your team mates for good play, by all means, but within reason.
I really hate this too.. very American! No place in rugby imho. Next we will see Football-esq celebrations after scoring a try! I’m all for celebrating but in an appropriate manner.

The one thing I would say about the 60 or so (not sure when he went off) minutes of whooping, screaming, yelling by Earl is.. how satisfying it was watching that only for them to lose in the 84th minute! Makes the victory even more enjoyable and the look on their faces.. Priceless.. I’m not one to gloat but.. I enjoyed that win all the more for Earl’s over exuberance :smt005
Minor point; American sports have penalties for Taunting and Unsportsmanlike Behaviour and those are never controversial calls when made...
there's actually a big controversy over exactly that in the NFL with flags being thrown for "taunting" because someone looks at a player whilst turning to run back to his side line and other trivial things

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:02 pm

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:50 pm
I do wonder given if YBY's poor kicking performance on Saturday, may have been down to his thigh injury (the one hr pulled out of the Eng training squad for)

If you're compensating for an injury (even subconsciously) it may explain more so than wind (which he's dealt with through his career) his poor kicking
his box kicking in a tigers shirt has been poor for a long time he always seems to over hit them for us

Crofty
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by Crofty » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:48 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:00 pm
Crofty wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:31 am
OakhamTiger32 wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:58 pm


I really hate this too.. very American! No place in rugby imho. Next we will see Football-esq celebrations after scoring a try! I’m all for celebrating but in an appropriate manner.

The one thing I would say about the 60 or so (not sure when he went off) minutes of whooping, screaming, yelling by Earl is.. how satisfying it was watching that only for them to lose in the 84th minute! Makes the victory even more enjoyable and the look on their faces.. Priceless.. I’m not one to gloat but.. I enjoyed that win all the more for Earl’s over exuberance :smt005
Minor point; American sports have penalties for Taunting and Unsportsmanlike Behaviour and those are never controversial calls when made...
there's actually a big controversy over exactly that in the NFL with flags being thrown for "taunting" because someone looks at a player whilst turning to run back to his side line and other trivial things
That's why I put never in italics...
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

"I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?"

Jimmy Skitz
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by Jimmy Skitz » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:55 pm

Crofty wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:48 pm
Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:00 pm
Crofty wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:31 am


Minor point; American sports have penalties for Taunting and Unsportsmanlike Behaviour and those are never controversial calls when made...
there's actually a big controversy over exactly that in the NFL with flags being thrown for "taunting" because someone looks at a player whilst turning to run back to his side line and other trivial things
That's why I put never in italics...
sarcasm isn't easy to pick up in text to be fair

Crofty
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Re: Round 3 - Saracens (H) - Saturday 02nd October 2021

Post by Crofty » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:01 pm

Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:55 pm
Crofty wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:48 pm
Jimmy Skitz wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:00 pm

there's actually a big controversy over exactly that in the NFL with flags being thrown for "taunting" because someone looks at a player whilst turning to run back to his side line and other trivial things
That's why I put never in italics...
sarcasm isn't easy to pick up in text to be fair
Yup, hence the clarification
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

"I know you don't like it when I boo him but how else will he know he's wrong?"

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