Exeter's woes

[Noggs]

In the end they will not be able to resist the pressure and will have to make some big changes. I think it more a case of when, not if.

[Soggypitch]

In the end they will not be able to resist the pressure and will have to make some big changes. I think it more a case of when, not if.

You are probably right Noggs. It's almost impossible to say or do anything these days without offending a minority/opinion somewhere.
It seems that what the majority think no longer matters.
I'm almost surprised that the over zealous censors on this forum have allowed such a debate.
Covid and whether players are vaccinated or not etc....is unfortunately a big part of rugby generally and a debate about that on the Autumn international thread has just been removed, completely unnecessarily.
I may not agree with everything written on this forum, but I defend the right of people to say it (providing it is not malicious mis-information), it would seem that George Orwell was about 37 years out in his vision of Big Brother controlling our lives/thoughts.....

[chris111]

In the end they will not be able to resist the pressure and will have to make some big changes. I think it more a case of when, not if.

You are probably right Noggs. It's almost impossible to say or do anything these days without offending a minority/opinion somewhere.
It seems that what the majority think no longer matters.
I'm almost surprised that the over zealous censors on this forum have allowed such a debate.
Covid and whether players are vaccinated or not etc....is unfortunately a big part of rugby generally and a debate about that on the Autumn international thread has just been removed, completely unnecessarily.
I may not agree with everything written on this forum, but I defend the right of people to say it (providing it is not malicious mis-information), it would seem that George Orwell was about 37 years out in his vision of Big Brother controlling our lives/thoughts.....

It’s really not that difficult to avoid offending people, Soggy, honestly. It’s actually quite easy - if you feel the urge to say something that you know others find offensive…er, just don’t say it!
And BYW - 1984 was an allegorical take on a brutal authoritarian regime responsible for the death of millions. Asking a bunch of beer boys to take their stupid head gear off is hardly comparable.

[Scott1]

In the end they will not be able to resist the pressure and will have to make some big changes. I think it more a case of when, not if.

You are probably right Noggs. It's almost impossible to say or do anything these days without offending a minority/opinion somewhere.
It seems that what the majority think no longer matters.
I'm almost surprised that the over zealous censors on this forum have allowed such a debate.
Covid and whether players are vaccinated or not etc....is unfortunately a big part of rugby generally and a debate about that on the Autumn international thread has just been removed, completely unnecessarily.
I may not agree with everything written on this forum, but I defend the right of people to say it (providing it is not malicious mis-information), it would seem that George Orwell was about 37 years out in his vision of Big Brother controlling our lives/thoughts.....

Ah George Orwell ,was he a member of The Fabian Society? Taught by Aldous Huxley,another member of the secret societies that have plagued our past,present and future. Their coat of arms was a wolf in sheep's clothing and 1984 was the century year of the Fabian Society. But its all a conspiracy theory I've been told!

[mol2]

I may be wrong, but Orwell wanted to call it 1948 but the publisher persuaded him.it was too close to the bone.

[Scott1]

I may be wrong, but Orwell wanted to call it 1948 but the publisher persuaded him.it was too close to the bone.

I've heard that too but there are letters from George to the Fabians that have been uncovered. Love my secret societies, goes way back 6000 years to the original one The Brotherhood of The Snake in ancient Sumeria,fascinating!

[Soggypitch]

In the end they will not be able to resist the pressure and will have to make some big changes. I think it more a case of when, not if.

You are probably right Noggs. It's almost impossible to say or do anything these days without offending a minority/opinion somewhere.
It seems that what the majority think no longer matters.
I'm almost surprised that the over zealous censors on this forum have allowed such a debate.
Covid and whether players are vaccinated or not etc....is unfortunately a big part of rugby generally and a debate about that on the Autumn international thread has just been removed, completely unnecessarily.
I may not agree with everything written on this forum, but I defend the right of people to say it (providing it is not malicious mis-information), it would seem that George Orwell was about 37 years out in his vision of Big Brother controlling our lives/thoughts.....

It’s really not that difficult to avoid offending people, Soggy, honestly. It’s actually quite easy - if you feel the urge to say something that you know others find offensive…er, just don’t say it!
And BYW - 1984 was an allegorical take on a brutal authoritarian regime responsible for the death of millions. Asking a bunch of beer boys to take their stupid head gear off is hardly comparable.

Chris - I wasn't commenting on the Exeter head dress situation specifically, you can argue that both ways to be fair.
BUT you are so wrong about it being easy to not offend anybody!! The problem now is that even facts are offensive to some. The most obvious example is the trans debate. JK Rowling has been cancelled by a large section of the twitter warriors and she's had vitriolic abuse and threats from aggressive trans activists, who by anyone's standards are a tiny minority. Her offence? Saying that all women menstruate and wanting safe spaces for women in hospitals, prisons, sports changing rooms etc away from men who self identify as women.
Dr Kathleen Stock at Sussex Uni has just been hounded out of her job for expressing similar views.
So Chris - you are wrong, those views are not controversial to the vast majority of the population, but expressing them has had grave consequences for JK and Stock plus many others.
The trans issue is just one example. In todays world any opinion expressed will offend somebody, it's called free speech and often results in healthy debate. Or it did pre social media and the rise of the so easily offended minorities.

[Scott1]

You are probably right Noggs. It's almost impossible to say or do anything these days without offending a minority/opinion somewhere.
It seems that what the majority think no longer matters.
I'm almost surprised that the over zealous censors on this forum have allowed such a debate.
Covid and whether players are vaccinated or not etc....is unfortunately a big part of rugby generally and a debate about that on the Autumn international thread has just been removed, completely unnecessarily.
I may not agree with everything written on this forum, but I defend the right of people to say it (providing it is not malicious mis-information), it would seem that George Orwell was about 37 years out in his vision of Big Brother controlling our lives/thoughts.....

It’s really not that difficult to avoid offending people, Soggy, honestly. It’s actually quite easy - if you feel the urge to say something that you know others find offensive…er, just don’t say it!
And BYW - 1984 was an allegorical take on a brutal authoritarian regime responsible for the death of millions. Asking a bunch of beer boys to take their stupid head gear off is hardly comparable.

Chris - I wasn't commenting on the Exeter head dress situation specifically, you can argue that both ways to be fair.
BUT you are so wrong about it being easy to not offend anybody!! The problem now is that even facts are offensive to some. The most obvious example is the trans debate. JK Rowling has been cancelled by a large section of the twitter warriors and she's had vitriolic abuse and threats from aggressive trans activists, who by anyone's standards are a tiny minority. Her offence? Saying that all women menstruate and wanting safe spaces for women in hospitals, prisons, sports changing rooms etc away from men who self identify as women.
Dr Kathleen Stock at Sussex Uni has just been hounded out of her job for expressing similar views.
So Chris - you are wrong, those views are not controversial to the vast majority of the population, but expressing them has had grave consequences for JK and Stock plus many others.
The trans issue is just one example. In todays world any opinion expressed will offend somebody, it's called free speech and often results in healthy debate. Or it did pre social media and the rise of the so easily offended minorities.

Even the trans world has turned on the LGBQ groups, its crazy! And you're absolutely right,i mean we've actually had a paid for task force walking around making notes of the names of roads and streets that might offend people!

[JeffBadland]

It's almost impossible to say or do anything these days without offending a minority/opinion somewhere.
It seems that what the majority think no longer matters.

It's more that minorities now have more of a voice to express discontent against bullying from the majority. The younger generation seem supportive of this, which ought to be applauded. Unfortunately, there are many within society who are used to having things their own way, mistake the liberation of others as their own repression.

[mol2]

There comes a time that common sense will prevail with regards to the Chiefs bit. I doubt too many native Americans will have even heard of them. Hats with feathers are not exclusive to them!

Plainly and obviously not offensive or racist in it’s use and hose who choose to see it otherwise need to get over it. Kids have been dressing up in head dresses like this for a 100 years.

Chiefs need to worry more about their on field performance. A side that peaked a couple of seasons ago and are rapidly declining as some other of the key players that made the elements of the side work have come to the twilight of their careers and others haven’t been able step up. A challenge for Baxter to clear out and rebuild.

[Scott1]

There comes a time that common sense will prevail with regards to the Chiefs bit. I doubt too many native Americans will have even heard of them. Hats with feathers are not exclusive to them!

Plainly and obviously not offensive or racist in it’s use and hose who choose to see it otherwise need to get over it. Kids have been dressing up in head dresses like this for a 100 years.

Chiefs need to worry more about their on field performance. A side that peaked a couple of seasons ago and are rapidly declining as some other of the key players that made the elements of the side work have come to the twilight of their careers and others haven’t been able step up. A challenge for Baxter to clear out and rebuild.

Post of the day ☝

[jgriffin]

Try understanding from the point of view of a person who gets stuff most days - it is shocking. No amount of 'PC' or'woke' jibes make up for being racially insulted nearly every time you go out. The staid burghers of Lichfield were a bit testy when the topic came up on the online newspaper 'Lichfield Live' - number of non-white people who attested to being insulted in that way was sobering.

Mind you there were those who got testy about James Lad's excellent Tiger graphic! And the dancers!

[GB72]

I could hardly be classed as part of the 'woke' millenial group but surely I am not the only one who sees that it is not the decision of those making the comment or wearing the headress or chanting that gets to decide it it is offensive, it is those who within the affected group.

The native american people have stated that they find it offensive and that pretty much should be the end of it.

[Old Hob]

Am Aussie a while back said:

"We have the same history of genocide against the indigenous population as the US - but at least we didn't make a children's game out of it. Nobody played Cops and Abo's"

[Darc Tiger]

I regret opening this thread. Some people just can't go a day without having an unrelated dig at trans people. Get in the sea.

The Exeter situation should be simple. Keep the name, and rebrand to something related the actual history of the area. 'Chiefs For Change' has already shared potential options that would be faaar better. http://exchiefs4change.org/drawing-board/

Would bet that the people defending the NA branding the hardest are the same people who often complain we don't celebrate our own history enough. This is the solution that is best for everyone.