Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

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Rugbygramps
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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Rugbygramps » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:29 pm

longlivethecrumbie wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:16 pm
Just throwing this out there as a thought....

......are there any of us learned folk on here who think that thinks Borthwick may prefer the day to day detail of club management rather than the short, sharp periods of international rugby and therefore may not be interested in the England job?
Totally I think you have to be certain character to be a national coach. It’s why Lancaster failed and someone like Scott Robinson avoids the All Blacks job

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by RagingBull » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:30 pm

Don’t think Robertson avoids the AB job by choice though

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Rugbygramps » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:36 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:30 pm
Don’t think Robertson avoids the AB job by choice though
Possibly but it’s his style that puts off the decision makers. Very hands on as is Lancaster and Borthwick though in a much quieter way

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Tiglon » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:49 pm

I doubt there are many coaches out there that wouldn't want a shot at becoming a World Cup Winner. However, my perception of Borthwick is that he's motivated by winning, and very little else - I don't think he'd leave Tigers if he felt he hadn't fully succeeded yet (assuming he felt he still had the tools to be able to). Remember he turned down a Lions role to focus on Tigers, which shows pretty strongly that his plan is to win stuff at Tigers before worrying about higher honours. They say the worst thing about the England job is the press attention - that's probably somewhat easier if you already have a few major trophies in your cabinet.

Important to also remember how the Lancaster appointment went for the RFU, and various others like Ashton and Johnno. I don't think they'll be keen to put themselves at risk by appointing someone who isn't either proven at international level or has won Premierships and/or European Champions Cups. With the player pool available, there'll be plenty of international coaches up for the job.

Once (hopefully) he's won a couple of trophies with Tigers, I do feel he'll want to move on to the next challenge which could be England.

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Scott1 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:51 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:49 pm
I doubt there are many coaches out there that wouldn't want a shot at becoming a World Cup Winner. However, my perception of Borthwick is that he's motivated by winning, and very little else - I don't think he'd leave Tigers if he felt he hadn't fully succeeded yet (assuming he felt he still had the tools to be able to). Remember he turned down a Lions role to focus on Tigers, which shows pretty strongly that his plan is to win stuff at Tigers before worrying about higher honours. They say the worst thing about the England job is the press attention - that's probably somewhat easier if you already have a few major trophies in your cabinet.

Important to also remember how the Lancaster appointment went for the RFU, and various others like Ashton and Johnno. I don't think they'll be keen to put themselves at risk by appointing someone who isn't either proven at international level or has won Premierships and/or European Champions Cups. With the player pool available, there'll be plenty of international coaches up for the job.

Once (hopefully) he's won a couple of trophies with Tigers, I do feel he'll want to move on to the next challenge which could be England.
Yeah i don't mind if he goes in 2028 😂👍

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Tiglon » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:51 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:49 pm
I doubt there are many coaches out there that wouldn't want a shot at becoming a World Cup Winner. However, my perception of Borthwick is that he's motivated by winning, and very little else - I don't think he'd leave Tigers if he felt he hadn't fully succeeded yet (assuming he felt he still had the tools to be able to). Remember he turned down a Lions role to focus on Tigers, which shows pretty strongly that his plan is to win stuff at Tigers before worrying about higher honours. They say the worst thing about the England job is the press attention - that's probably somewhat easier if you already have a few major trophies in your cabinet.

Important to also remember how the Lancaster appointment went for the RFU, and various others like Ashton and Johnno. I don't think they'll be keen to put themselves at risk by appointing someone who isn't either proven at international level or has won Premierships and/or European Champions Cups. With the player pool available, there'll be plenty of international coaches up for the job.

Once (hopefully) he's won a couple of trophies with Tigers, I do feel he'll want to move on to the next challenge which could be England.
Yeah i don't mind if he goes in 2028 😂👍
I meant in 2024 after we've won the Prem/Euro double 3 seasons running :smt003

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Scott1 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:54 pm

[ulist=][/ulist]
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:53 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:51 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:49 pm
I doubt there are many coaches out there that wouldn't want a shot at becoming a World Cup Winner. However, my perception of Borthwick is that he's motivated by winning, and very little else - I don't think he'd leave Tigers if he felt he hadn't fully succeeded yet (assuming he felt he still had the tools to be able to). Remember he turned down a Lions role to focus on Tigers, which shows pretty strongly that his plan is to win stuff at Tigers before worrying about higher honours. They say the worst thing about the England job is the press attention - that's probably somewhat easier if you already have a few major trophies in your cabinet.

Important to also remember how the Lancaster appointment went for the RFU, and various others like Ashton and Johnno. I don't think they'll be keen to put themselves at risk by appointing someone who isn't either proven at international level or has won Premierships and/or European Champions Cups. With the player pool available, there'll be plenty of international coaches up for the job.

Once (hopefully) he's won a couple of trophies with Tigers, I do feel he'll want to move on to the next challenge which could be England.
Yeah i don't mind if he goes in 2028 😂👍
I meant in 2024 after we've won the Prem/Euro double 3 seasons running :smt003
That’ll do!

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Rugbygramps » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:12 pm

I would hope that Borthwick when he leaves, hopefully not for a while yet, would want to leave a legacy, not just results but in terms of the playing and coaching squads he leaves behind. Hopefully that would include messers Walters and Sinfield

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Scott1 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:14 pm

Rugbygramps wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:12 pm
I would hope that Borthwick when he leaves, hopefully not for a while yet, would want to leave a legacy, not just results but in terms of the playing and coaching squads he leaves behind. Hopefully that would include messers Walters and Sinfield
Worryingly I believe they could leave as a team

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:23 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:14 pm
Rugbygramps wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:12 pm
I would hope that Borthwick when he leaves, hopefully not for a while yet, would want to leave a legacy, not just results but in terms of the playing and coaching squads he leaves behind. Hopefully that would include messers Walters and Sinfield
Worryingly I believe they could leave as a team
In which case I think Andrea will have a plan in place. Borthwick IMO is not the only person in the current management structure who's impressed!
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Old Hob » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:30 pm

Good grief!
We're just getting to be good again. challenging in 3 competitions and already the worry beads have been worn away, the fingernails bitten to the quick and the sleepless nights started because SB (who has said nothing on the matter) may, at some point, in the distant future, possibly, leave!
Do we have a bunch of correspondents who fret about a partner's next birthday present on Christmas Eve?
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Scott1 » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:31 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:30 pm
Good grief!
We're just getting to be good again. challenging in 3 competitions and already the worry beads have been worn away, the fingernails bitten to the quick and the sleepless nights started because SB (who has said nothing on the matter) may, at some point, in the distant future, possibly, leave!
Do we have a bunch of correspondents who fret about a partner's next birthday present on Christmas Eve?
Only if her birthdays on Christmas day 😂👍

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Tiglon » Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:46 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:30 pm
Good grief!
We're just getting to be good again. challenging in 3 competitions and already the worry beads have been worn away, the fingernails bitten to the quick and the sleepless nights started because SB (who has said nothing on the matter) may, at some point, in the distant future, possibly, leave!
Do we have a bunch of correspondents who fret about a partner's next birthday present on Christmas Eve?
I don't think anyone is worried about it, it's just an inevitable conversation given where Borthwick has come from, particularly with the job supposedly up for grabs in 18 months.

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by Rugbygramps » Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:01 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:46 pm
Old Hob wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:30 pm
Good grief!
We're just getting to be good again. challenging in 3 competitions and already the worry beads have been worn away, the fingernails bitten to the quick and the sleepless nights started because SB (who has said nothing on the matter) may, at some point, in the distant future, possibly, leave!
Do we have a bunch of correspondents who fret about a partner's next birthday present on Christmas Eve?
I don't think anyone is worried about it, it's just an inevitable conversation given where Borthwick has come from, particularly with the job supposedly up for grabs in 18 months.
Excellent point and the lack of a game leaves us looking for discussions. I’m sure in his mind he hasn’t achieved anything yet

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Re: Progress under Borthwick 2021/22

Post by RagingBull » Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:31 pm

So the last time we had 70 points in the prem table was 2013/14 season
It was Steve Borthwick's last season as a player
George Ford first season as a Bath player
Freddie Burns last season as a Gloucester player

We finished the season with 15 wins & 2 draws from 22 games
Lost to Northampton in a dramatic semi final and got knocked out the Heineken cup by Clermont in the quarters

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