Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

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bendy
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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by bendy » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:50 am

RagingBull wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:19 am
bendy wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:39 pm
I think we lacked a lot of intensity which was there on Saturday.

No better example than taking two kicks for goal from penalties at the end of the first half (one missed, one scored) - why bother? It's preseason, stick it in the corner!
You say it’s preseason but the season also starts next week.
Exactly, so let's practice that line out, get the maul working, we're going to need to fight against Exeter, the team needs the warm up against a real opposition! What we got instead was 14 blokes stood watching George Ford kick some pretty unchallenging penalties. They could do that at Oval Park.

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by Dokie » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:55 am

RagingBull wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:09 pm
For me
Good
Reffell - Dominated the breakdown
Genge - Carried well looked for support
Scott - excellent carrying
Martin - Some big hits also does some hard runs but prone to knocking on
Liebenberg - Really good all rounder

Bad
Lineouts
Steward isn't a winger
I couldn't tell what our gameplan was we didn't really attack, but we didn't really seem to be overly aggressive with the lineout attacks either.
Defence not good on the whole very good linespeed but trailing runners ended up giving too much space once Scarlets did get some meters



Props Genge and Cole
Hooker tough one Youngs and Dolly have struggled, it will be Youngs due to experience though
Hopefully Wells will be fine, Personally I think Chessum deserves a start but for his first prem game Exeter might not be ideal if not I would be tempted to start Henderson due to familiarity
Martin, Reffell and Liebenberg should be fine
Youngs and Ford kicked well but we never really tried anything on the whole
Scott has too start, either at 12 with Porter 13 or 13 with Kelly (My preference is the former)
Saumaki and Potter are the two wingers too show the ability to make a linebreak and keep going on this preseason form
Steward nailed down 15.
Bad
Steward isn't a winger

You didn’t need to watch the game to know that!!

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by Redstripeman » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:25 am

aslongaswebeatsaints wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:40 pm
May be a pre season but leaking tries due to missed tackles is simply not good enough.
..I really thought we had eradicated that from our play. Tackling with your arms, side on to your opponent can only end one way.
Pretty embarrassing to watch that happen twice in a very short period.
Noticed it stemmed from losing our line-out which fell apart again.

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by sam16111986 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:28 am

Dokie wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:55 am
RagingBull wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:09 pm
For me
Good
Reffell - Dominated the breakdown
Genge - Carried well looked for support
Scott - excellent carrying
Martin - Some big hits also does some hard runs but prone to knocking on
Liebenberg - Really good all rounder

Bad
Lineouts
Steward isn't a winger
I couldn't tell what our gameplan was we didn't really attack, but we didn't really seem to be overly aggressive with the lineout attacks either.
Defence not good on the whole very good linespeed but trailing runners ended up giving too much space once Scarlets did get some meters



Props Genge and Cole
Hooker tough one Youngs and Dolly have struggled, it will be Youngs due to experience though
Hopefully Wells will be fine, Personally I think Chessum deserves a start but for his first prem game Exeter might not be ideal if not I would be tempted to start Henderson due to familiarity
Martin, Reffell and Liebenberg should be fine
Youngs and Ford kicked well but we never really tried anything on the whole
Scott has too start, either at 12 with Porter 13 or 13 with Kelly (My preference is the former)
Saumaki and Potter are the two wingers too show the ability to make a linebreak and keep going on this preseason form
Steward nailed down 15.
Bad
Steward isn't a winger

You didn’t need to watch the game to know that!!
Two things;

1. I suspect Steward on the wing was to get both him and Heggarty more game time.

2. Borthwick may have wanted just to check that dynamic maybe thinking ahead to the winter months where kicking is more prevalent and that back three would be a good tactical combination. Don't think it really worked though.

I think RB is a touch harsh on the attacking play. We clearly had a change in structure with the playmakers have more running options and an increased emphasis on running out to in to make the runs harder to track for a defender looking at the breakdown. I liked that. Certainly suited Scott at 13 very well. It was messy and players did find themselves out of position a fair bit, I'm hoping that's just teething problems of the new developing system. Hopefully we can drill that out the players more over the next week, the advantage of playing on the Thursday is we'll get more opportunities to correct for next week than if we'd played at the weekend.

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by sam16111986 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:30 am

Redstripeman wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:25 am
aslongaswebeatsaints wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:40 pm
May be a pre season but leaking tries due to missed tackles is simply not good enough.
..I really thought we had eradicated that from our play. Tackling with your arms, side on to your opponent can only end one way.
Pretty embarrassing to watch that happen twice in a very short period.
Noticed it stemmed from losing our line-out which fell apart again.
Pre season tends to be the time defence coaches swear most. Tackling seems to be something that comes back by doing it in games. Defence did look an odd mix between ropey and gaping hole. No Reffell on the second half left us worryingly toothless at the breakdown which didn't help.

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by jgriffin » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:33 am

The reffing was average Prem standard, I.e holding, blocking and overrunning in best Exeter and Pro14 style was unpunished. Could be crucial next week.
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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by kk20gb30 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:37 am

.....Rather now than when it really matters....
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by JP14 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:15 am

jgriffin wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:33 am
The reffing was average Prem standard, I.e holding, blocking and overrunning in best Exeter and Pro14 style was unpunished. Could be crucial next week.
All Welsh regions have a magical ability to seal off the breakdown and not get it noticed by any of the officials! Ma’am has officiated several Prem games as a touch judge (apparently lineswoman is not a word!), and in some aspects I thought Cox did well, the fact she got the scrum wrong on occasions to me is simply an indication of the English reffing system in general and nothing to do with her own ability.

At times it seemed Scarlets were more interested in collapsing the scrum and all sorts of gamesmanship, it was only when they actually played any rugby in the second half that they got anywhere. No wonder they’re a side who are better on paper than they are on the pitch.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by Tigerbeat » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:17 am

JP14 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:15 am
jgriffin wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:33 am
The reffing was average Prem standard, I.e holding, blocking and overrunning in best Exeter and Pro14 style was unpunished. Could be crucial next week.
All Welsh regions have a magical ability to seal off the breakdown and not get it noticed by any of the officials! Ma’am has officiated several Prem games as a touch judge (apparently lineswoman is not a word!)
No touch judges now…..they are Assistant Referees.

All Referees start somewhere and this was an ideal game to use to assess her and use for the development programme. Expect to see her reffing in the Championship and may be a season or two before we see her in the middle for a Premiership game, dependent on progress.
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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by sapajo » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:09 am

JP14 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:15 am
jgriffin wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:33 am
The reffing was average Prem standard, I.e holding, blocking and overrunning in best Exeter and Pro14 style was unpunished. Could be crucial next week.
All Welsh regions have a magical ability to seal off the breakdown and not get it noticed by any of the officials! Ma’am has officiated several Prem games as a touch judge (apparently lineswoman is not a word!), and in some aspects I thought Cox did well, the fact she got the scrum wrong on occasions to me is simply an indication of the English reffing system in general and nothing to do with her own ability.

At times it seemed Scarlets were more interested in collapsing the scrum and all sorts of gamesmanship, it was only when they actually played any rugby in the second half that they got anywhere. No wonder they’re a side who are better on paper than they are on the pitch.

Spot on assessment. On the Ref Link I could hear Ellis Genge constantly in the Refs ear all game about the scrum and other matters but surprisingly he did not once mention to her about Scarlets constantly sealing off and going off their feet beyond the ball at the ruck. Its not the job of Ellis to Ref the game but i feel that come Exeter he must at least bring it to the attention of the Ref as Exeter are masters at it.
Last edited by sapajo on Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:10 am

Think I'm right in saying all non-injured players that are with the squad (not out on loan or with International teams) have had minutes during preseason. To me that is priority 1 ticked off. For all of it's scrappiness it was a competitive game which is what we want. If we didn't rotate and lose continuity I have us winning that. We were 17-8 up when wholesale changes started to be made, in a real game you don't always destroy the continuity like that so final result wasn't an issue for me.
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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:22 am

sapajo wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:09 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:15 am
jgriffin wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:33 am
The reffing was average Prem standard, I.e holding, blocking and overrunning in best Exeter and Pro14 style was unpunished. Could be crucial next week.
All Welsh regions have a magical ability to seal off the breakdown and not get it noticed by any of the officials! Ma’am has officiated several Prem games as a touch judge (apparently lineswoman is not a word!), and in some aspects I thought Cox did well, the fact she got the scrum wrong on occasions to me is simply an indication of the English reffing system in general and nothing to do with her own ability.

At times it seemed Scarlets were more interested in collapsing the scrum and all sorts of gamesmanship, it was only when they actually played any rugby in the second half that they got anywhere. No wonder they’re a side who are better on paper than they are on the pitch.

Spot on assessment. On the Ref Link I could hear Ellis Genge constantly in the Refs ear all game about the scrum and other matters but surprisingly he did not once mention to her about Scarlets constantly sealing off and going off their feet beyond the ball at the ruck. Its not the job of Ellis to Ref the game but i feel that come Exeter he must at least bring it to the attention of the Ref as Exeter are masters at it.
Playing Devils advocate here...

Maybe Ellis deliberately DIDN'T bring it to the referee's attention because we are playing Exeter next week and they ARE masters at it, because for all the will in the world they won't get pinged for it all next week, so maybe they didn't want the ref too strict on itlast night so they can practice against a team doing it?
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by sam16111986 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:42 am

sapajo wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:09 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:15 am
jgriffin wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:33 am
The reffing was average Prem standard, I.e holding, blocking and overrunning in best Exeter and Pro14 style was unpunished. Could be crucial next week.
All Welsh regions have a magical ability to seal off the breakdown and not get it noticed by any of the officials! Ma’am has officiated several Prem games as a touch judge (apparently lineswoman is not a word!), and in some aspects I thought Cox did well, the fact she got the scrum wrong on occasions to me is simply an indication of the English reffing system in general and nothing to do with her own ability.

At times it seemed Scarlets were more interested in collapsing the scrum and all sorts of gamesmanship, it was only when they actually played any rugby in the second half that they got anywhere. No wonder they’re a side who are better on paper than they are on the pitch.

Spot on assessment. On the Ref Link I could hear Ellis Genge constantly in the Refs ear all game about the scrum and other matters but surprisingly he did not once mention to her about Scarlets constantly sealing off and going off their feet beyond the ball at the ruck. Its not the job of Ellis to Ref the game but i feel that come Exeter he must at least bring it to the attention of the Ref as Exeter are masters at it.
I think Ellis and JD2 were both frustrated by the lack of consistency in the ref's messages to the teams. As an example she pinged Tigers at the scrum for an early push and then at the next scrum allowed Scarlets a full drive in the next scrum before the ball came in. I suspect she's seen as an official with potential as opposed to one that's likely to be taking charge of a lot of Prem games this season. Last night's game will be a good learning experience for her, I'd have been interested to hear more of what she was saying but a lot of the bland waffle in commentary covered it up.

As an aside I like Wells but a future commentator he isn't. I'm sure I've read somewhere he's done his ref and coaching courses. Would love to see him as a ref when he retires in the future, he's got at least five years more before that point.

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by JP14 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:43 am

Tigerbeat wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:17 am
JP14 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:15 am
jgriffin wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:33 am
The reffing was average Prem standard, I.e holding, blocking and overrunning in best Exeter and Pro14 style was unpunished. Could be crucial next week.
All Welsh regions have a magical ability to seal off the breakdown and not get it noticed by any of the officials! Ma’am has officiated several Prem games as a touch judge (apparently lineswoman is not a word!)
No touch judges now…..they are Assistant Referees.

All Referees start somewhere and this was an ideal game to use to assess her and use for the development programme. Expect to see her reffing in the Championship and may be a season or two before we see her in the middle for a Premiership game, dependent on progress.
Didn't seem to much assistance by the assistant referees last night though!

Of course everyone has to start somewhere, I believe it won't be long before Cox is reffing Prem Games as the main official, my comments were by no means a criticism, you chose to only quote some of my post.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni

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Re: Scarlets visit - Thursday 09th September 2021

Post by Old Hob » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:10 pm

Quote from Sam about the referee...." I'd have been interested to hear more of what she was saying but a lot of the bland waffle in commentary covered it up..."

I think that during every televised game
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