RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:53 am
I do think it took cockers leaving for us to really appreciate how important good forward play is.
I think the supporters and the board took for granted how much coaching went into creating a forward pack like we had and it wasn't merely just players.
He took a Leicester team to Bath and got pumped 45-0.
Just over a year later in January 2016 Leicester got pumped at the scrum and lost 26-6 conceding a hat-trick of penalty tries at Sarries.
A year after that and with the great P. Cilliers now amongst it Leicester got pumped 0-43 by Glasgow at Welford Road.
Cockers was not taken for granted.
During the period of reaping what we'd sewn though. Years of only focussing on winning the next game had left a mediocre squad with a much diluted Tigers ethos. It's the difference between where we were at the time and where say Chiefs were. Chiefs had Hepher an excellent head coach worrying about the next game but they had the man above him Baxter looking at the big picture.
We had no long term planning, succession planning consisted of buy whatever was available at the time, didn't seem to be much targeted recruitment or long term acquisition planning.
RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:53 am
I do think it took cockers leaving for us to really appreciate how important good forward play is.
I think the supporters and the board took for granted how much coaching went into creating a forward pack like we had and it wasn't merely just players.
He took a Leicester team to Bath and got pumped 45-0.
Just over a year later in January 2016 Leicester got pumped at the scrum and lost 26-6 conceding a hat-trick of penalty tries at Sarries.
A year after that and with the great P. Cilliers now amongst it Leicester got pumped 0-43 by Glasgow at Welford Road.
Cockers was not taken for granted.
During the period of reaping what we'd sewn though. Years of only focussing on winning the next game had left a mediocre squad with a much diluted Tigers ethos. It's the difference between where we were at the time and where say Chiefs were. Chiefs had Hepher an excellent head coach worrying about the next game but they had the man above him Baxter looking at the big picture.
We had no long term planning, succession planning consisted of buy whatever was available at the time, didn't seem to be much targeted recruitment or long term acquisition planning.
Cockers is a good coach not a good DOR.
He was a significant contributor to his own downfall.
RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:53 am
I do think it took cockers leaving for us to really appreciate how important good forward play is.
I think the supporters and the board took for granted how much coaching went into creating a forward pack like we had and it wasn't merely just players.
He took a Leicester team to Bath and got pumped 45-0.
Just over a year later in January 2016 Leicester got pumped at the scrum and lost 26-6 conceding a hat-trick of penalty tries at Sarries.
A year after that and with the great P. Cilliers now amongst it Leicester got pumped 0-43 by Glasgow at Welford Road.
Cockers was not taken for granted.
I didn’t say that cockers was taken for granted.
I said that our forwards coaching was taken for granted.
It was the right decision to sack cockers I said it at the time and still stay by that.
He took a Leicester team to Bath and got pumped 45-0.
Just over a year later in January 2016 Leicester got pumped at the scrum and lost 26-6 conceding a hat-trick of penalty tries at Sarries.
A year after that and with the great P. Cilliers now amongst it Leicester got pumped 0-43 by Glasgow at Welford Road.
Cockers was not taken for granted.
During the period of reaping what we'd sewn though. Years of only focussing on winning the next game had left a mediocre squad with a much diluted Tigers ethos. It's the difference between where we were at the time and where say Chiefs were. Chiefs had Hepher an excellent head coach worrying about the next game but they had the man above him Baxter looking at the big picture.
We had no long term planning, succession planning consisted of buy whatever was available at the time, didn't seem to be much targeted recruitment or long term acquisition planning.
Cockers is a good coach not a good DOR.
He was a significant contributor to his own downfall.
He was. He was out of his depth as a DOR. Instead of a procession of head coaches under him the board needed to take the brave decision and appoint someone over him and being down to head coach. Whether Cockers would have accepted that is a different question, the board didn't want to spend that kind of money either you'd suspect.
RagingBull wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:53 am
I do think it took cockers leaving for us to really appreciate how important good forward play is.
I think the supporters and the board took for granted how much coaching went into creating a forward pack like we had and it wasn't merely just players.
He took a Leicester team to Bath and got pumped 45-0.
Just over a year later in January 2016 Leicester got pumped at the scrum and lost 26-6 conceding a hat-trick of penalty tries at Sarries.
A year after that and with the great P. Cilliers now amongst it Leicester got pumped 0-43 by Glasgow at Welford Road.
Cockers was not taken for granted.
I didn’t say that cockers was taken for granted.
I said that our forwards coaching was taken for granted.
It was the right decision to sack cockers I said it at the time and still stay by that.
I do not think the forward coaching was taken for granted at Leicester.
In any case there was little point in bringing alternative knowledgeable support in when the DOR liked the sound of his own voice so much.
Didn't they sort of try it with Mauger and it did not go well.
England do not need him, unless Jones is going.
Funding the women more adequately should be a higher priority than another overpaid coach.
Whatever our opinions on the merits (or otherwise of Richard C) a successful period with England could put him right in the succession picture if/when Eddie Jones departs.
Incidentally our 0-43 reverse Vs Glasgow came under the stewardship of Aaron Mauger and for many helped seal his own fate.
Seemingly heading rapidly toward senility .....Not long or far to go now , in fact, getting worse daily.....
Cocker was a proven second in command and forwards coach, when Mayer for personal reasons we were virtually out of Europe and about eighth in the Premiership that was in 2009. The improvement after Cocker took the helm saw us rise up the table, eventually winning the play-offs, we also made it to final of the Heineken Cup with an injury depleted squad and were leading in that match until further injury played its part and we lost late in the game. Over the next few years we had some success when backs coach Matt O'Connor left, Paul Burke being promoted to take over the role, mid field injuries meant that during that season we had to field fourteen different combinations in the 10, 12, 13 positions even at one stage fielding a flanker in the centre., Burke in my opinion was unfairly sacked, I am not sure that was Cocker's decision. Aaron Mauger came to take responsibility for the backs but having been given the title head coach there seemed to be misunderstandings over gameplan and selection between him and Cocker eventually resulting with both going. I remain convinced that there was interference from other than the coaching team in recruitment and selection that was unhelpful, Cocker was not perfect, nor were those around him despite all having the best interests of the club at heart. I am certain that Richard C will have further developed his skills whilst in Toulon and Edinburgh and he if appointed to the England set up will be a big asset to Jones although I feel a loss to club rugby.
Balanced post.
The main problems IMO were 1) Board thinking they could rest on their laurels, skimp and pay peanuts; 2) getting RC to do jobs he was ill-equipped as a coach/anything else for: 3) his unwillingness to do something about 1 & 2, and trying to get by with poor players; 4) a complete Horlicks as far as either attack or defence ideas or strategies (Tigers by 2013 were attacking and defending with ancient patterns, not my conclusion but two players, one a former Prem and the other a Championship one); 5) popular appointment with the players of AM, who IMO was not any better than MOC (which is possibly unfair to AM).
By the end of that saga of decline, we still had the BoD messing about until the recent cleanout and continuing revolution.
As I said before, RC is a change agent.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Although there is no doubt that cockers was tigers through and through our decline began under his watch and some of his selections were baffling with some players being undroppable regardless of performance.
We assembled a team with a stellar back line who never saw the ball due to the lack of momentum by our forwards. That is all in the past now and I believe that we have a squad which should see us in the top half of the table and maybe top four if we can improve our back play
Regardless of whether Cockers deserved the sack or how much the blame was on him, the board have accepted the error of their ways, a Brendan Venter style clear-out of the club (which many were crying out and was needed) has occurred at most levels on and off the pitch, and we are now under a much better direction with Steve Borthwick at the helm.
Squabbling over Cocker’s legacy achieves diddly squat and it’s just all off-season boredom.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
There are coaches who can assemble a team and those who can get the best out of a team assembled by others.
I think Cockers falls into the latter category.
There are very few coaches who can do both. In the England set up I hope he will get the forwards to thrive and give a collective steely element to the many talented players.
Jones says he has long enjoyed a good working relationship with Cockerill, and denies the former hooker's arrival will marginalise current forwards coach Matt Proudfoot.
"He became available and the timing was right for us. Getting the right coaches at international level there is an element of luck and an element of timing," Jones said.
"When he was the Tigers coach we always had a very good relationship. He is a straight up-and-down kind of bloke, tells you what he thinks, and he is very good at coaching the fundamentals of forward play which is essential for Test match rugby.
"[Cockerill and Proudfoot] will both work together. Matt is the forwards co-ordinator so he will be in charge. Cockers will look after the line-out and Matt the scrum which is a normal situation for forward coaching.
"We feel like we've got a really strong coaching team."
