LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

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MurphysLaw
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by MurphysLaw » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:01 pm

[quote=Scott1 post_id=791439 time=1631031347 user_id=11569]
As good as they were as players,Smith and WW worry me in charge of attack.
[/quote]

Well, yes. Both are pretty inexperienced coaches, but this is the second season for Smith, and Wiggy has also had previous input, so we'll see whether there's any discernible improvement in the attack.
With Sinfield in his first season as a coach in Union too, the back play will be interesting.
Hopefully, the Scarlets game will give us some pointers.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by Dokie » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:43 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:15 pm
As good as they were as players,Smith and WW worry me in charge of attack.
I’m thinking the same. Smith was good in defence but he hardly got bums off seats in attack. I hope they join the ranks of those coaches who can formulate a more exciting attacking strategy than they themselves could deliver as players.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:48 pm

I am sure WW can coach slowing down ball at every breakdown & then just kicking it pretty easily, our head coaches comment re his playing performances last season are laughable imo.
We have a very "green" coaching team at club level, that may be an advantage or a recipe for problems.
I worry who will have the authority to question any Borthwick decision/actions, just because he is the boss it shouldn't stop the "are you sure boss?"
To win is not as important as playing with style!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by ABClub » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:59 pm

If we're going for the "they'll coach as they played" shtick then Wigglesworth could equally teach our backs to play how the Sarries back line did when dominating the Champions Cup with some absolutely stunning attacking play.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:02 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:48 pm
I am sure WW can coach slowing down ball at every breakdown & then just kicking it pretty easily
Back in his Sale days he used to be a real threat around the breakdown with his sniping breaks. Age has meant he doesn't really have the acceleration for that anymore. Remember JVP is almost young enough to be his son he's going to have more zip about him. Doesn't mean all Wigglesworth wants to do is kick, with age brings pragmatism and no attack coach last season but a solid kicking game led only one way.

I expect us to have a much better attack this season though. No excuses. Do hope it's the brutally efficient back play Sarries went to when Sorrel was it replaced Farrell as backs coach?

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by Scott1 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:29 pm

ABClub wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:59 pm
If we're going for the "they'll coach as they played" shtick then Wigglesworth could equally teach our backs to play how the Sarries back line did when dominating the Champions Cup with some absolutely stunning attacking play.
Absolutely stunning? Must've missed that then!
I recall pinpoint kick chase with 2/3 players immediately smothering you,brutal defence,Barritt trucking it up from 12,lots of walk ins by Wyles etc. There were a few moments where Goode joined the line late for some good trys but let's not go OTT here!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by Dokie » Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:56 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:02 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:48 pm
I am sure WW can coach slowing down ball at every breakdown & then just kicking it pretty easily
Back in his Sale days he used to be a real threat around the breakdown with his sniping breaks. Age has meant he doesn't really have the acceleration for that anymore. Remember JVP is almost young enough to be his son he's going to have more zip about him. Doesn't mean all Wigglesworth wants to do is kick, with age brings pragmatism and no attack coach last season but a solid kicking game led only one way.

I expect us to have a much better attack this season though. No excuses. Do hope it's the brutally efficient back play Sarries went to when Sorrel was it replaced Farrell as backs coach?
I hope our attack is based around much more than scrum half play. And I’m bored with our pragmatic back play. We won’t progress to top 4 and genuine challengers without developing a variety of points of attack across the back line, whilst utilising dummy runners.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by westwinds31 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:39 pm

Guilty until proven innocent eh ?! Let’s give the guy a break, just because Sarries game plan was one thing doesn’t mean Wigglesworth is going to implement that at Tigers. To flip it to a positive, what if he’s actually really knowledgeable and has grand designs to attack in many different ways, vary it up and surprise a few people. Maybe the shackles are off and he’s looking to be expansive? Of course you have to have the buy in of the squad for any plan to work and who better to drive that than someone who was involved in one of the most successful environments of recent years.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:17 pm

Dokie wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:43 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:15 pm
As good as they were as players,Smith and WW worry me in charge of attack.
I’m thinking the same. Smith was good in defence but he hardly got bums off seats in attack. I hope they join the ranks of those coaches who can formulate a more exciting attacking strategy than they themselves could deliver as players.
To some extent that helps. If you're good at defence, you may know what you struggled with etc, just because he wasn't able to do it as aplayer is completely different to working out how to do it as a coach.
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by RunTigerRun » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:38 pm

Ealing certainly scored some good tries during the season WW was their attack / backs coach.

Don’t forget WW has also played under numerous coaches so will no doubt be able to bring bits from all his experience to the table. He has to work with the strengths of our players and the game plan for the team.

Yes it might not be the globetrotter style of say Quins or Bristol, but we scored some good tries last season when given ample opportunities. Besides in most cases I’d rather win ugly games than lose high scoring affairs. (My opinion)

Yes, time will tell but we’ve only seen two pre-season games so far, which by their own standards don’t show the whole picture come season start. Let’s give the guys a chance to bed in fully and make their mark.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by ABClub » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:42 am

Scott1 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:29 pm
ABClub wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:59 pm
If we're going for the "they'll coach as they played" shtick then Wigglesworth could equally teach our backs to play how the Sarries back line did when dominating the Champions Cup with some absolutely stunning attacking play.
Absolutely stunning? Must've missed that then!
I recall pinpoint kick chase with 2/3 players immediately smothering you,brutal defence,Barritt trucking it up from 12,lots of walk ins by Wyles etc. There were a few moments where Goode joined the line late for some good trys but let's not go OTT here!
Early in their success perhaps but as they developed their attack was terrific. Williams, Daly and Goode in the back three, Lozowski and Tompkins in the centre, Ben Earl running some of the best support lines I've seen from a forward. Front rows in Mako Vunipola, George and Lamositele who have brilliant hands to release runners. That's before mentioning some of the great individual attacking moments from their impressive young backs such as Malins, Morris, Manu Vunipola and Segun.

Sarries deserved all the flack they got over the salary cup but bottom line is that if Tigers played anything close to the attacking rugby Sarries did at times most of us on here would be in urgent need of some clean underwear.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by Scott1 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:16 am

ABClub wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:42 am
Scott1 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:29 pm
ABClub wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:59 pm
If we're going for the "they'll coach as they played" shtick then Wigglesworth could equally teach our backs to play how the Sarries back line did when dominating the Champions Cup with some absolutely stunning attacking play.
Absolutely stunning? Must've missed that then!
I recall pinpoint kick chase with 2/3 players immediately smothering you,brutal defence,Barritt trucking it up from 12,lots of walk ins by Wyles etc. There were a few moments where Goode joined the line late for some good trys but let's not go OTT here!
Early in their success perhaps but as they developed their attack was terrific. Williams, Daly and Goode in the back three, Lozowski and Tompkins in the centre, Ben Earl running some of the best support lines I've seen from a forward. Front rows in Mako Vunipola, George and Lamositele who have brilliant hands to release runners. That's before mentioning some of the great individual attacking moments from their impressive young backs such as Malins, Morris, Manu Vunipola and Segun.

Sarries deserved all the flack they got over the salary cup but bottom line is that if Tigers played anything close to the attacking rugby Sarries did at times most of us on here would be in urgent need of some clean underwear.
Think you are a bit mixed up,your original post was quoting Sarries European dominance. Most of the players you then mention came after their last triumph which was the Leinster win. It was still very much a forward dominated team then with Farrell and Barritt in the MF. So really since they've developed their attacking play they havnt won a European title.(although they haven't been in many for obvious reasons!)
The back to back winning team had a backline of WW,Farrell,Barritt,Bosch,Wyles,Ashton and Goode iirc and was a better one than the more recent cup winning one imo.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by JP14 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:15 am

I’d imagine both Ford and Burns have had input in the attack as well…

In the Dragons game, we played a lot more varied and kept the ball in the hand considerably longer than we did at any time last season. Obviously you have got to factor in not just that’s it a preseason game but also potentially some mind games to the other Prem teams who knows?

In my view we were guilty of overplaying at times against the Dragons, but I’m confident these issues will be ironed out.
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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by markharbtiger » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:24 am

My concern with the extra responsibilities of WW is if one or other of our other 9s is on international duty, then we're looking light in that position. I assume the assumption is we'd at most be short one 9 and in that eventuality WW will focus on covering that position, and that is sufficient. Maybe it is!
Giving Jonny Law some game time in the recent warmup makes more sense now!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2021/22 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACTS: There and Back again a Tigers Tale by Steve Borthwick

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:05 am

markharbtiger wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:24 am
My concern with the extra responsibilities of WW is if one or other of our other 9s is on international duty, then we're looking light in that position. I assume the assumption is we'd at most be short one 9 and in that eventuality WW will focus on covering that position, and that is sufficient. Maybe it is!
Giving Jonny Law some game time in the recent warmup makes more sense now!
The scrum half options are still Youngs, JVP, Wigglesworth and Law. Wigglesworth coaching as well as playing will presumably just mean more game time for JVP and less for Wigglesworth with Law getting some opportunities sprinkled in as well. Wigglesworth's new position shouldn't be leaving us short.

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