Developments in NZ

[Old Hob]

The Times today (15/06) carries a report of an experiment in NZ that seems to be taking off. That is clubs in competitions where no player is allowed to weigh more than 85Kg or just over 13 stone. Interest in the game has been falling in NZ but this new format seems to have revived a lot of interest. Lots of entries in the Under 85Kg cup last year - double this year (Times did not give numbers).

They are also trialling new laws at community level such as no tackle in the air and to catch the ball you must have both feet on the ground. To prevent the catcher being lined up and flattened he cannot be tackled until he has taken a step.. (I can see defenders slowing the game down by not taking a step and not passing until the defence is organised.)

[Noggs]

I find it tiring the way the southern hemisphere are always trying to change the rules of the game we love. Excluding the fat lads and the house ends from the game is simply awful. If they want to go away and start a new game they should go away and do it. Just leave rugby to those who enjoy the game as currently played.

[Old Hob]

I think the intention is the opposite. The fat lads and house ends, if they turn that blubber into muscle, can become the 20 stone wingers we get nowadays. It's the little blokes, the Phil Bennets, who don't get a look in.

[Scott1]

Don't mind it at age grade,don't want to see it at the top level.

[Noggs]

But when you think about it there would be no point in the fat lads and house ends ever starting to play the game if they had no future of progression. Forward play as you know is very technical and for me is a big part of the enjoyment. Because I enjoy this does not mean that fast backs are also not enjoyable to watch. It is the variety in the game which puts it way ahead of wendy ball IMO. If it ain't broken.........

[Tigers86asw]

Been doing this for a while in age grade rugby due to the size of the pacific island and Maori youngsters. Excellent in younger age groups and why not in adult amateur rugby if people want?

[Scott1]

Been doing this for a while in age grade rugby due to the size of the pacific island and Maori youngsters. Excellent in younger age groups and why not in adult amateur rugby if people want?

Oh yes,amateur ok. My point is the games already being watered down,it needs to be left alone!

[teds]

But when you think about it there would be no point in the fat lads and house ends ever starting to play the game if they had no future of progression. Forward play as you know is very technical and for me is a big part of the enjoyment. Because I enjoy this does not mean that fast backs are also not enjoyable to watch. It is the variety in the game which puts it way ahead of wendy ball IMO. If it ain't broken.........

Half agree. We need the fat lads. Half disagree. We also need the guys at 5’7”. Without the guys at 5’7” the game is already broken.

Ok we have Faff de Klerk but he is really man of 8’7” just masquerading in the body of a smaller man using a special compression algorithm developed by NASA. Even Harry Randall is listed as 5’8” on Wikipedia.

Where are today’s Shane Williams, Christian Wade, Jason Robinson or our own dear Les Cusworth. How big was Serevi?

[Tigers86asw]

But when you think about it there would be no point in the fat lads and house ends ever starting to play the game if they had no future of progression. Forward play as you know is very technical and for me is a big part of the enjoyment. Because I enjoy this does not mean that fast backs are also not enjoyable to watch. It is the variety in the game which puts it way ahead of wendy ball IMO. If it ain't broken.........

Half agree. We need the fat lads. Half disagree. We also need the guys at 5’7”. Without the guys at 5’7” the game is already broken.

Ok we have Faff de Klerk but he is really man of 8’7” just masquerading in the body of a smaller man using a special compression algorithm developed by NASA. Even Harry Randall is listed as 5’8” on Wikipedia.

Where are today’s Shane Williams, Christian Wade, Jason Robinson or our own dear Les Cusworth. How big was Serevi?

For the best size doesn’t matter. Kolbe is the best example today that I can think of.

[Pellsey]

Been doing this for a while in age grade rugby due to the size of the pacific island and Maori youngsters. Excellent in younger age groups and why not in adult amateur rugby if people want?

Oh yes,amateur ok. My point is the games already being watered down,it needs to be left alone!

Completely agree. I would call this more of an erosion than a development.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I can see some potential in this. Some players take longer to fill out. Take our newcomer of the year. Jasper talked about how he nearly gave up the game because he developed physically later than a number of his peers.

If this is a game that keeps people engaged in the game for longer while they develop either the physical attributes or the skillsets required to thrive at the top level. It might mean we get more Kolbe's or more Wiese's sticking it till those skillsets develop.

The problem will be is if once those skillsets have developed the better players remain in the lower weight category rather than stepping up to the main game which could actually dilute the talent.

[glenn]

It might also stop some kids getting fat, by keeping them active and fit?

[Wes]

I've always been an advocate of weight in age groups to stop the one massive lad with no skill smashing smaller players until they go home and never come back. I'm unsure of the 85kg max in adult rugby (I'm not big but I'm heavier than that) but I could see an average weight being a great thing. That way you could have some big lads as well as the smaller lighter ones. Without something to change it, rugby is just getting bigger and bigger and although there's the odd freak little guy, most don't get far in the professional game as they are dropped for being too small at academy stage.
The other way would be to speed up the game more so its more aerobic making it difficult for bigger players to be effective and also limit subs so again, players have to be able to move around for 80mins without a break.

[mightymouse]

I understood that weight category games have been a thing in NZ for a long time. A mate of mine was being recruited over 30 years ago.
I think it’s a good idea in junior and local rugby.
If you’re bigger you just play in the heavier category.
There is a particular issue in NZ about different groups developing physically at a faster rate than others and is potentially dangerous in younger categories in particular. Another friend of mine in NZ was telling me of this issue, and how mothers we’re not allowing their kids to play because of fear of serious injury. Hence his half English, half Chinese son ended up playing football and only played touch Rugby until he went to Uni and away from the influence of his mother!
I have also advocated the catching the ball on the ground for a long time, this flying through the air and no one allowed to touch you is ridiculous. Effectively we have brought into the game a situation where people deliberately put themselves and others in danger and them everyone around them get penalised for failing to dematerialise.
Not sure about the one step rule, that’s just building added complications that would be a nightmare to referee and takes away spontaneity. Too much like Netball!

[mol2]

Was this not a response to the impact of huge South Sea Island kids putting off smaller kids from European origin from playing at junior levels and being lost to the game.

People are generally getting bigger because of better childhood nutrition but let’s not kid ourselves that anabolic and other agents are not playing a part in muscle bound juggernauts having the stamina to run around for 80 mins. It may be better policed at the top level but below that and at junior levels I have my concerns. Weight restrictions might just be a part of dissuading this bulking up.

However if you are a 6’3 prop you will struggle to make 85kg so not an easy balance.

Rowing has lightweight divisions but not so easy to apply given the different roles of a prop, lock, wing or scrum half.