Lions 2021

[Tigers86asw]

If you cannot catch and are not excellent in the set piece then you will get hammered. Hogg, Van de Merve, Sutherland and Owens were very very poor.

Sutherland was dreadful!

I’ve no doubt he is a good player but the truth is if he was English he would not be an international. The lack of English coaches and Jones’ leadership has really hindered the Lions. Genge carries better and scrums better. Not taking him is so blinkered.

[Scott1]

If you cannot catch and are not excellent in the set piece then you will get hammered. Hogg, Van de Merve, Sutherland and Owens were very very poor.

Sutherland was dreadful!

I’ve no doubt he is a good player but the truth is if he was English he would not be an international. The lack of English coaches and Jones’ leadership has really hindered the Lions. Genge carries better and scrums better. Not taking him is so blinkered.

Crazy none pick as was Underhill,you have to meet fire with fire with SA and our pack were badly bullied yesterday, especially second half

[Scott1]

Tbf I saw it at the time but never thought nothing of it but in the Kolbe/Murray mele it looks like Hogg bit Le Roux on the shoulder. Looks like he could be in a bit of bother. Itojes knee in DeAllendes throat is being looked at too.

[Scott1]

Incidents are here,both look in big trouble to me!
https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/l ... TO=newsnow

Biggar in the background throwing his arms up,top player but his antics belong in another sport with his constant crying at the ref and diving all over the place like he did yesterday!

[Postiger2]

They do look like they'll be in trouble although Faf De Klerk should also be in the dock for his no arms tackle on Murray. Surprised he didn't get punished for that during the game.

[JP14]

I believe that Kolbe was hindered by Biggar, and that affected his timings. Was it a red card? Possibly, although I don’t think it was as reckless as Liebenberg’s.

[Scott1]

They do look like they'll be in trouble although Faf De Klerk should also be in the dock for his no arms tackle on Murray. Surprised he didn't get punished for that during the game.

Yes,he should be banned too. And Kolbe could even be upgraded (can they retrospectively act?)

[TigerFeetSteve]

They do look like they'll be in trouble although Faf De Klerk should also be in the dock for his no arms tackle on Murray. Surprised he didn't get punished for that during the game.

Yes,he should be banned too. And Kolbe could even be upgraded (can they retrospectively act?)

Yes they can retrospectively act.

If the citing officers believe it is a CLEAR red card offense they can be cited regardless if the incident is looked at in the game and a different outcome is reached.

[jgriffin]

Three points:
1 Erasmus' action was outside the spirit of rugby, if there is any of that left anyway
2 Gatland has long contributed to the trail that led to this
3 It worked, for whatever reason, and others outside of the Prem may well be tempted.

[Scott1]

They do look like they'll be in trouble although Faf De Klerk should also be in the dock for his no arms tackle on Murray. Surprised he didn't get punished for that during the game.

Yes,he should be banned too. And Kolbe could even be upgraded (can they retrospectively act?)

Yes they can retrospectively act.

If the citing officers believe it is a CLEAR red card offense they can be cited regardless if the incident is looked at in the game and a different outcome is reached.

Thanks! Even though I believe it’s an unfortunate accident it does look head first to me upon review. We could be looking at 4 players being banned!

[strawclearer]

Still disagree,i understand duty of care in making sure your opponent lands OK but I honestly believe Kolbe didn't see him until the last millisecond. Some one made a crazy point yesterday about you've still got eyes and they see everything, something along those lines,but they don't!
You try it,look up on a fixed point while you're moving for a certain amount of time and then see if you can adjust immediately when something comes flying over you,its completely impossible. So why should a player be penalised for that?!
I understand the law but it needs changing or we should just stop competition in the air altogether. I'm glad the referee used common sense in giving a yellow,although he really gave the yellow for the landing not the incident but least it worked out well. I'm glad Murray wasn't hurt but that was a complete rugby accident and shouldn't be classed as foul play at any time. Let's hope there's time for this kind of situation to be readressed preseason. Still believe it was nothing like small margins ,ref calls aside it was a comfortable win for SA ,absolute second half domination. Especially at the set piece where The Lions were embarrassed at times.

[my bold]
You make some very valid points but, imho, the key one is right there.

At no point does Kolbe attempt to compete for the ball - he never leaves the ground. Given that he can be pretty confident a Lions player will be jumping for the ball, he should reasonably be expected to prioritise his duty of care to that player. He didn't and should therefore be cited for a clear red card offense.

[Scott1]

Still disagree,i understand duty of care in making sure your opponent lands OK but I honestly believe Kolbe didn't see him until the last millisecond. Some one made a crazy point yesterday about you've still got eyes and they see everything, something along those lines,but they don't!
You try it,look up on a fixed point while you're moving for a certain amount of time and then see if you can adjust immediately when something comes flying over you,its completely impossible. So why should a player be penalised for that?!
I understand the law but it needs changing or we should just stop competition in the air altogether. I'm glad the referee used common sense in giving a yellow,although he really gave the yellow for the landing not the incident but least it worked out well. I'm glad Murray wasn't hurt but that was a complete rugby accident and shouldn't be classed as foul play at any time. Let's hope there's time for this kind of situation to be readressed preseason. Still believe it was nothing like small margins ,ref calls aside it was a comfortable win for SA ,absolute second half domination. Especially at the set piece where The Lions were embarrassed at times.

[my bold]
You make some very valid points but, imho, the key one is right there.

At no point does Kolbe attempt to compete for the ball - he never leaves the ground. Given that he can be pretty confident a Lions player will be jumping for the ball, he should reasonably be expected to prioritise his duty of care to that player. He didn't and should therefore be cited for a clear red card offense.

"He can be pretty confident" that's not definite is it? So are we saying we HAVE to jump for every ball now and we are not allowed to catch a ball with both feet on the ground? Seems crazy to me that. So basically you are saying that if Kolbe jumped but Murray still got higher and the same incident happened then its not even a penalty then?

[Scott1]

I'm not being awkward for the sake of it by the way just pointing out that sometimes,even if you don't take your eye off the ball for one second, if the opposition player comes in quicker and can jump higher than you then this incident will ALWAYS occur and you're on a hiding to nothing. Best option is just to ban aerial competition

[strawclearer]

Nothing is definite - it's all a matter of opinion / judgment.

I'm simply saying that, in my opinion, he wasn't competing for the ball - in which case I guess he was concerned more with the tackle. The duty of care (and the laws of the game) require him to ensure he does not tackle a player in the air. He failed in that.

[Scott1]

Nothing is definite - it's all a matter of opinion / judgment.

I'm simply saying that, in my opinion, he wasn't competing for the ball - in which case I guess he was concerned more with the tackle. The duty of care (and the laws of the game) require him to ensure he does not tackle a player in the air. He failed in that.

See your point,something that definitely needs revisiting. We've seen players jump for the ball to compete been beaten by the speed and height of their opponent they've touched them in the air and still got a yellow or a red if its gone wrong. That's even with "competing". Sometimes a player just can't win