BRISTOL (H) - 5th June 2021 (NO CITINGS)

[Scott1]

How could Wayne really say anything different being an active ref

[Jimmy Skitz]

if 5 or BT want a ref on get someone like Nigel Owens on who is retired and doesn't have to worry about rocking the boat

[mol2]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Tempest was in anyway biased, merely that he bottled a situation where many refs would have given a penalty try. Presumably because he did not wan to decide the result.

He handled the situation with Afoa quite well when the benches were arguing.

Once the situation had got that messy I would have ascertained that Afoa was fit (or not)- returned to the 5m line given the sanction for the penalty as a penalty try. Then confirmed time was up.

[Tigerbeat]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Tempest was in anyway biased, merely that he bottled a situation where many refs would have given a penalty try. Presumably because he did not wan to decide the result.

He handled the situation with Afoa quite well when the benches were arguing.

Once the situation had got that messy I would have ascertained that Afoa was fit (or not)- returned to the 5m line given the sanction for the penalty as a penalty try. Then confirmed time was up.

Why should it have been a penalty try? Tigers were not going towards the try line and a try was not likely to be scored.

Just watched back the last 10 minutes on 5 Catch up and thought that Tigers wasted time with playing the advantages rather than taking the penalty and going for the corner.
Wayne Barnes was giving some good insight and feedback.
Tempest handled the situation well but was made complicated by the input from Bristol and then got heated with Steve Borthwick commenting.
The ball did look as though it was out of the scrum and was very marginal.
The above was not a good advertisement for the game of rugby but taking positives out of the games was good to see that Tigers could match a top four team and the progress that has been made during the season under this coaching team. All looking good for next season.

[Broadstaff]

A lot on here clearly don't think Ian Tempest was very good. But he didn't actually do anything wrong. Interesting to read Brian Moore this morning and to hear Dave Flatman just now. Flats gave a perfect summary of why there was never a penaly try possible and why the yellow card was given at the correct time. Some on here would like the ref to make up the laws and rules and give penalty tries and yellow cards outside the guidelines, but this referee didn't do that. He applied thenguidelines with regard to the non-p try and to the timing of the yellow card perfectly. He also dealt with the Pat Lam fiasco to the letter of the regulations, which you have to do where player safety is concerned. I hope some sanction will be taken against Bristol for contradicting themselves and trying to manipulate the situation to suit themselves outside the regulations. The very last play of the game was a matter of opinion and the AR gave his. Flats again says it was a really tight call, but that the AR was right. We cannot blame the officiating team for this defeat. To be honest, I thoiught they did a great job and got those calls in the last ten minutes spot on.

How I would love the law to change. The first time the scrum collapses the clock stops. It does not restart until the ball next comes into play by leaving the scrum or by the scrum travelling three metres forwards or backwards.

Though we might still be playing now.

[OakhamTiger32]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Tempest was in anyway biased, merely that he bottled a situation where many refs would have given a penalty try. Presumably because he did not wan to decide the result.

He handled the situation with Afoa quite well when the benches were arguing.

Once the situation had got that messy I would have ascertained that Afoa was fit (or not)- returned to the 5m line given the sanction for the penalty as a penalty try. Then confirmed time was up.

Why should it have been a penalty try? Tigers were not going towards the try line and a try was not likely to be scored.

A try was only not likely to be scored because they kept cheating and collapsing the scrum the second we started moving forwards. Until Uren just decided to pick the ball up out of the scrum and kick it out..

[sam16111986]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Tempest was in anyway biased, merely that he bottled a situation where many refs would have given a penalty try. Presumably because he did not wan to decide the result.

He handled the situation with Afoa quite well when the benches were arguing.

Once the situation had got that messy I would have ascertained that Afoa was fit (or not)- returned to the 5m line given the sanction for the penalty as a penalty try. Then confirmed time was up.

Why should it have been a penalty try? Tigers were not going towards the try line and a try was not likely to be scored.

A try was only not likely to be scored because they kept cheating and collapsing the scrum the second we started moving forwards. Until Uren just decided to pick the ball up out of the scrum and kick it out..

Five or so years ago you used to get penalty tries when the opposition do nothing but drop the scrum 5m out but not anymore. Especially not in the Prem where refs are going more towards the Pro14 style of officiating where little reward is given to the dominant scrum. Like allowing an attacking team under pressure to drop the front row if the ball has got back to the 8.

[LessThanSte]

I haven't read through the whole of this post, not did I see the game at the weekend, though I've read a few articles about it. So apologies if this has been discussed and/or is not relevant.

I thought the whole point of going to a 23 man squad a few years back was effectively to prevent uncontested scrums, i.e. the spare prop wasnt to be considered a substitution option unless to replace an injured player that would otherwise result in going uncontested.

What happened to that?

Maybe we need a 24th player for such occurrences? And then a 25th in a few years time?

[Pellsey]

So there were no citings? 48 hours is up! Is that definitely decided now? I was a little concerned about Genge at the end!

[GETHIN EXILE]

The conversation should be as follows

Ref: Do you have a suitable replacement for the prop?

Lam yes but he's injured.

Ref: OK uncontested scrums called who else is coming off?

Lam sorry i meant tactical he can play

Ref : Too late you said he's injured so i'm not letting him back on. Who else is coming off?

Lam : OK number x will come off

Ref: Leicester , Bristol have called uncontested scrums as it's a penalty do you want to go tap, kick or scrum?

can we change the call, we had called for the scrum already which caused the issue, surely we wouldn't now be allowed to change for that scrum?

As I said that is what the conversation "should " have been. To not allow us to change what we wanted to do with the penalty due to a change of circumstances due to uncontested scrums would be unfair as we would have based the "scrum again " decision on thinking it would be contested. Uncontested scrums on the 5m line give an advantage to the defence because they know that we can only pick up or pass.

[kk20gb30]

Pat Lams explanation of 'Subgate'.....

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/lam-open ... -argument/

[westwinds31]

Flatman's summary of it on the Ch5 highlights programme was spot on, if you get a chance to watch it.

[kk20gb30]

With regard to the finale of the match - still no news of any citings - two days on .

[Scott1]

Pat Lams explanation of 'Subgate'.....

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/lam-open ... -argument/

Full of ......! Averages 43 minutes apparently!

[ourla]

Pat Lams explanation of 'Subgate'.....

https://www.rugbydump.com/news/lam-open ... -argument/

These statements from Lam don't add up:

Tempest accepted that Lam said Afoa was injured (or whatever) and couldn't return, and so then asked which other player was to be removed - as per the rules. But rather than do that Bristol allowed Afoa to go on.

Also, he says "“Then the Leicester boys came in and started going and accusing us" - from what I could see there was only Borthwick, who is there as our team manager and entitled to know what is going on. And all he said was for Lam to stop lying - because Afoa was not injured. Which appears to be correct.