Tactical Kicking

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Greenwhiteandred
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by Greenwhiteandred » Mon May 10, 2021 10:55 am

But we don’t kick to touch very often when in our own 22 either so I don’t think it’s the error issue , it’s about keeping ball in play. Personally I think when in our 22 I would rather get it off the pitch , reset our defence and compete at the line-out , might give away the odd penalty at the line-out from competing but I think overall it will be more effective.

sam16111986
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by sam16111986 » Mon May 10, 2021 11:17 am

Greenwhiteandred wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:55 am
But we don’t kick to touch very often when in our own 22 either so I don’t think it’s the error issue , it’s about keeping ball in play. Personally I think when in our 22 I would rather get it off the pitch , reset our defence and compete at the line-out , might give away the odd penalty at the line-out from competing but I think overall it will be more effective.
That's a short term, that immediate phase view. Kicking directly too touch means the opposition pack can take a breath and set themselves. Keeping it on the pitch means the have to sprint back to help support their back three. Now we have still got work to do on our kick chase but it's getting better. I think our overall plan is to force the opposition pack in a high intensity 25 minutes at the start of the game and then back the work of our world class fitness coach to mean we can then take them to task towards the end of the first half.

We've also got the quality to bring off the bench so that we can use our squad to maintain that intensity into the second half.

In the second half we tend to kick to touch from our 22 so I presume in the first quarter/third of the game it is entirely a tactic being employed by our coaching team.

Ashurstwoodtiger
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by Ashurstwoodtiger » Mon May 10, 2021 12:12 pm

Thanks to you all for replying. Makes interesting reading

fentiger
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by fentiger » Mon May 10, 2021 12:18 pm

I believe this is our plan to back our fitness. It will be interesting to see if that helps us against Quins, they looked to be blowing heavily against Wasps after about 50mins?

johnthegriff
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by johnthegriff » Mon May 10, 2021 12:25 pm

In the olden days before lifting in the lineout was permitted a kick to touch probaly gave you at least a 40% chance of regaining the ball, now with lifting the chance is probably only 5% if that. I know we want to see the ball kicked into space but on a long kick the ball is in the air for a long time and two defenders can cover the width of the pitch so the chase is all important and must be by the kicker or someone running from behind him. We all want to see player running with the ball in hand, I loved to watch Vieanu running from the back jinking past six opponents but if he got caught whilst still in our 22 my thought was why did he not just :censored: kick it.

Offside
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by Offside » Mon May 10, 2021 12:39 pm

fentiger wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:18 pm
I believe this is our plan to back our fitness. It will be interesting to see if that helps us against Quins, they looked to be blowing heavily against Wasps after about 50mins?
But also went on to win with late tries and running rugby.

This has been an interesting thread and shows the possibility of a level of analysis and planning through the game that I had not totally appreciated. We need to judge it by the score board results in the next year as team cohesion improves over time.

Tiglon
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by Tiglon » Mon May 10, 2021 2:43 pm

The stats probably suggest that you have greater chance of regaining the ball or winning territory if you keep the kick in play - if the chase is effective and the kick accurate.

It's probably more likely that you will concede a penalty while defending a lineout than turning over the ball - if neither of those happen then the opposition have a lot of space and time to kick back at you after taking their lineout. It's different if you're kicking into their 22, because their space to clear following the lineout is limited.

LE18
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by LE18 » Mon May 10, 2021 10:15 pm

wellstiger wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:52 am
Most teams have experienced full backs who can collect a high ball, position themselves to anticipate the down field kick and be able to return with equal measure.eg Hogg, Faff, Priestland etc.
The spiral bomb is an evolution of the kicking game which will be replicated by the likes of said mentioned.
Therefore advantage is only temp. I would like to see a kick into space either dropped shorter with effective chase or into touch row Z.
Nothing wrong with a little grubber every now and then to turn a big defence.
I have always thought little grubber kicks gave you greater chance of getting a knock on, bounce unpredictable and often catches out the defender and gives you more time to get to him. High kicks give the defender more time to get under it.

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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by wormus » Tue May 11, 2021 11:34 pm

Ashurstwoodtiger wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:55 pm
We see a lot of kicking for territory during games these days which 9 times out of 10 ends up with a free run back,if there is a poor kick chase. These kicks are normally down centre of field. Can anyone with more recent game experience tell me why, with the talents of Ford, Smith etc they seldom try for a bounce into touch thus negating possible run back and also gives the chance of a contested line out.
Answer on postage stamp
For those with long memories will recall that I was the one who at an Open Forum with Geordan Murphy asked "why when the hardworking pack had toiled to win the ball the backs (Girls!) then kicked it way only for them to run it back with avengence and loose so much ground."" ~ I thought that I had the majority of the Open Forum on my side but Geordan launched an exocet at me for suggesting we avoid kicking outside the 22 and run it. I can report that my scars have healed but I am of the same opinion and whereas Geordan has moved on the kick tennis still exists and the opposition often run it back with points attached has not! :smt009

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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by jgriffin » Wed May 12, 2021 12:03 pm

wormus wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 11:34 pm
Ashurstwoodtiger wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 3:55 pm
We see a lot of kicking for territory during games these days which 9 times out of 10 ends up with a free run back,if there is a poor kick chase. These kicks are normally down centre of field. Can anyone with more recent game experience tell me why, with the talents of Ford, Smith etc they seldom try for a bounce into touch thus negating possible run back and also gives the chance of a contested line out.
Answer on postage stamp
For those with long memories will recall that I was the one who at an Open Forum with Geordan Murphy asked "why when the hardworking pack had toiled to win the ball the backs (Girls!) then kicked it way only for them to run it back with avengence and loose so much ground."" ~ I thought that I had the majority of the Open Forum on my side but Geordan launched an exocet at me for suggesting we avoid kicking outside the 22 and run it. I can report that my scars have healed but I am of the same opinion and whereas Geordan has moved on the kick tennis still exists and the opposition often run it back with points attached has not! :smt009
Being of the old school of keeping the ball, I can see that if your lineout is dominant, tactical kicking to the corner makes sense - QED Tigers until this season made no sense!
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Nofrontteeth
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Re: Tactical Kicking

Post by Nofrontteeth » Wed May 12, 2021 12:52 pm

I'm with LE18 on the grubber kick option. As the players keep pumping the protein and get bigger and faster why not test their ability to react to bending and handling near the ground.
It's something to consider both planned and heads up tactics.

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