Itoje article

[BFG]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.

Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.

Putting these together in the same sentence made me smile given where Sarries are currently playing and why.

[LE18]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.

Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.

Putting these together in the same sentence made me smile given where Sarries are currently playing and why.

I was talking about playing standards and ability, nothing to do with dubious funding.

[BFG]

Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.

Putting these together in the same sentence made me smile given where Sarries are currently playing and why.

I was talking about playing standards and ability, nothing to do with dubious funding.

I think it's difficult to gauge because private schools possess such strength in depth.
It's not a level playing field.
Some perspective is needed.
I think we have to remember that more ability from private schools does actually fail to make the grade.

[ourla]

Football isn't dominated by privately* educated players.

Hockey (I believe and IME) is.

Cricket I'm not too sure but I don't think so.

Not sure what the reason is tbh and how it can be changed.

* Maybe private and grammars?

[LE18]

Football isn't dominated by privately* educated players.

Hockey (I believe and IME) is.

Cricket I'm not too sure but I don't think so.

Not sure what the reason is tbh and how it can be changed.

* Maybe private and grammars?

Hockey and Cricket, are they still played at State schools?

[ourla]

Football isn't dominated by privately* educated players.

Hockey (I believe and IME) is.

Cricket I'm not too sure but I don't think so.

Not sure what the reason is tbh and how it can be changed.

* Maybe private and grammars?

Hockey and Cricket, are they still played at State schools?

My kids played a bit of both at Primary School. Sports at the Secondary is pretty shocking tbh. Even in PE. It's a great school otherwise but they have no time/resource for it.

My kids both played for a junior hockey club. Coaching was extremely variable and they only had the one session a week. They played games against other clubs and private/grammar schools and generally got humped. I took my lad to the county hockey sessions - more for the coaching/training than to get selected but he came away in tears after one session (he would have been 11/12 I reckon). I spoke to a mum about it whose son was a couple of years older and she said it was a waste of time. She was actually an hockey player so knew the system.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Football isn't dominated by private and grammer for a few reasons. 1. Most schools play it. 2. There are soooo many ways into the sport, just look at how many players can make an income at it and how many coaches there are it is easier to get alternative coaching if you miss the main coaches first time.

Cricket is a strange one, in parts if the country it is virtually dominated by private schools still and other parts there are much more opportunities for state educated to make it. It's quite a similar divide to union and league, just the sport never split, in Yorkshire most state schools have cricket, but in areas like Surrey it is primarily private schools.

[jgriffin]

Football isn't dominated by private and grammer for a few reasons. 1. Most schools play it. 2. There are soooo many ways into the sport, just look at how many players can make an income at it and how many coaches there are it is easier to get alternative coaching if you miss the main coaches first time.

Cricket is a strange one, in parts if the country it is virtually dominated by private schools still and other parts there are much more opportunities for state educated to make it. It's quite a similar divide to union and league, just the sport never split, in Yorkshire most state schools have cricket, but in areas like Surrey it is primarily private schools.

Yep, where I was brought up (Oldham) kids played both codes of rugby and cricket was the top summer sport. We had the Central Lancs League and top West Indian cricketers as role models, plus great opportunities for all kids, regardless of class.
Just in case anyone thinks I have a working class chip on my shoulder, I went to Oldham Hulme Grammar ( 2 years below Phil Larder), and I taught at Veseys for three years. One bugbear at Veseys was that while they concentrated on rugby skill as much as anything else, other independent/grammars went for the big boys regardless. My other bugbear is how in many cases talent gets sidelined by economic advantage.
I find Itoje a admirable role model in many ways for aspirational kids.

[LE18]

Football isn't dominated by private and grammer for a few reasons. 1. Most schools play it. 2. There are soooo many ways into the sport, just look at how many players can make an income at it and how many coaches there are it is easier to get alternative coaching if you miss the main coaches first time.

Cricket is a strange one, in parts if the country it is virtually dominated by private schools still and other parts there are much more opportunities for state educated to make it. It's quite a similar divide to union and league, just the sport never split, in Yorkshire most state schools have cricket, but in areas like Surrey it is primarily private schools.

Yep, where I was brought up (Oldham) kids played both codes of rugby and cricket was the top summer sport. We had the Central Lancs League and top West Indian cricketers as role models, plus great opportunities for all kids, regardless of class.
Just in case anyone thinks I have a working class chip on my shoulder, I went to Oldham Hulme Grammar ( 2 years below Phil Larder), and I taught at Veseys for three years. One bugbear at Veseys was that while they concentrated on rugby skill as much as anything else, other independent/grammars went for the big boys regardless. My other bugbear is how in many cases talent gets sidelined by economic advantage.
I find Itoje a admirable role model in many ways for aspirational kids.

I am pleased to read your reply and note your background, I just found it strange that you posted the Itoje report, which I fully agree with, but you didn't mention at that time your dislike of his Private Education, or how it was funded. Anyway thanks.

[kk20gb30]

Article makes for interesting reading .Thanks for the post.

[jgriffin]

LE18 you make a fundamental mistake in attributing to me a view - I don't dislike his education nor the institution that provided it. Eton (for example) tries very hard to civilise some morally appalling rich young people, as do some other independents. I dislike the myth of meritocracy that ignores the connections that such schools have, which makes few opportunities for the talented not in that orbit to benefit society. That's a different matter. I also eschew that Matthew Arnold view of education that still drives our society 150 years on (which coincidentally gave rugby the title "Barbarians" I believe).
BTW Larder made his way DESPITE his schooling, Oldham Hulme neither played rugby nor deigned to be involved in school sport in the area. Like many of us, he played both codes at the weekend.

[Traveller]

An aside on private v state. It's interesting to note that Jonny Wilkinson lists Lord Wandsworth College as his former school. Well it was in the Sixth Form, but from age 11+ - 16+ he had been at a place called Pierrepont. It was ranked three from the bottom of the Sunday Times 'A' Level 'GCSE' Independent Schools List. The school was rubbish at sport, and was perceived in the local area to be a bit of a dumping ground for kids who couldn't get in to any of the real 'independent schools'.

It's sport was dreadful. It had an ad hoc fixture list. JW never played for the County up until that point, and the only reason he left was because the school closed in the August. Otherwise he would have continued at there. He moved to LWC and within three or four months Steve Bates has taken him under his wing and he is hurtling towards England Schoolboys.

Both were independent / private schools.

[LE18]

There's a case for both types of school, there are a lot of kids at Private schools who do get overlooked, similarly to state, but its still my view that its the best players that get selected, we cant always be right though, but it does get up my noise when folks are always quoting because its family connected just because they have famous parents, who no doubt, pass on their own skills, albeit in the genes or extra coaching etc.

[BFG]

There's a case for both types of school, there are a lot of kids at Private schools who do get overlooked, similarly to state, but its still my view that its the best players that get selected, we cant always be right though, but it does get up my noise when folks are always quoting because its family connected just because they have famous parents, who no doubt, pass on their own skills, albeit in the genes or extra coaching etc.

In many cases the parents weren't really that good.

[Old Hob]

State sector schools fail their pupils in so many ways that are easy to fix and do not require a lot of resources. Where are the confidence building debating/ public speaking exercises at primary level such as there are in prep schools? Boys of this age have to organise many of their own activities - again a confidence building activity absent in most primary schools. Why do secondary pupils wander home at any time from 2pm onwards when prep school children are still there at 4 or 5pm? If you have taught for more than a year or two then all your lesson plans are (should be) available and reusable with a little tweaking so claiming a lot of time is needed on this is fiction. State schools in general do not seem to expect very much of their pupils and so they don't get very much. When a state school does do something like this it's hailed as almost 'miraculous'. Others don't seem to follow and the initiatives rarely last before the whole enterprise slides back into the mud again. Of course, not all private schools are good but many are innovative, caring and produce pupils with a broad knowledge and understanding - like Itoje.