Itoje article

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jgriffin
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Itoje article

Post by jgriffin » Sat May 08, 2021 9:47 am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.
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Re: Itoje article

Post by JP14 » Sat May 08, 2021 1:06 pm

A brilliant read, thank you for sharing. Despite the interview clearly stating that politics and sport do mix, I'm going to be largely apolitical for the purpose of forum rules.

I had read somewhere that rugby's lack of global reach had been the reason for Itoje, despite being signed up to Roc Nation, having a relatively small social media following. But I think the article is right to point out the shallowness of that, and it's clear that Itoje is proving an inspiration to all peoples regardless, whilst doing well to maintain a private life.

It's interesting how much his loyalty to Saracens will affect his career, if he had moved he could have had a much better Six Nations and more of a shot at the Lions captaincy in my opinion.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Itoje article

Post by LE18 » Sat May 08, 2021 3:27 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:47 am
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.
Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by Scott1 » Sat May 08, 2021 3:35 pm

LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:27 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:47 am
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.
Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.
Nothing to do with education,it’s just that inner city kids get ignored. I know,I was involved in junior rugby for 8 years and the RFU support was an absolute joke,basically ignored! I know we’ve had some good pros come from the likes of Barkers Butts but they were the exception. I’ve seen the game lose some potentially superb players due to no support or nurturing. It’s all about the ££££ sadly in this game!

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Re: Itoje article

Post by LE18 » Sat May 08, 2021 3:52 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:35 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:27 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:47 am
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.
Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.
Nothing to do with education,it’s just that inner city kids get ignored. I know,I was involved in junior rugby for 8 years and the RFU support was an absolute joke,basically ignored! I know we’ve had some good pros come from the likes of Barkers Butts but they were the exception. I’ve seen the game lose some potentially superb players due to no support or nurturing. It’s all about the ££££ sadly in this game!
It could also be about numbers, too many players to be selected, Jake Kerr springs to mind, albeit he made top level but principle still applies to those lower down those who's aspirations don't always materialise.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by sam16111986 » Sat May 08, 2021 3:59 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:35 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:27 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:47 am
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.
Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.
Nothing to do with education,it’s just that inner city kids get ignored. I know,I was involved in junior rugby for 8 years and the RFU support was an absolute joke,basically ignored! I know we’ve had some good pros come from the likes of Barkers Butts but they were the exception. I’ve seen the game lose some potentially superb players due to no support or nurturing. It’s all about the ££££ sadly in this game!
I've seen similar. Some very talented kids overlooked because their schools weren't fashionable or worse I've met people who were brilliantly suited to rugby but never had the opportunity to play it at a young enough age as it wasn't played at their school and their parents didn't follow the game. We need a wider outreach program so that those that won't organically come into contact with the sport can discover it earlier in life.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by Scott1 » Sat May 08, 2021 4:00 pm

LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:52 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:35 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:27 pm


Its a very good read thank you, I cant agree with his Jeremy Corbyn support, but also very surprised that you failed to mention his schooling, was he a privileged boy to go to Harrow, did you approve? I'm sure you didn't! I did, like I have argued many times on here, Private education usually teaches very good basics and sets standards, and that' s why so many players get selected, like JVP etc.
Nothing to do with education,it’s just that inner city kids get ignored. I know,I was involved in junior rugby for 8 years and the RFU support was an absolute joke,basically ignored! I know we’ve had some good pros come from the likes of Barkers Butts but they were the exception. I’ve seen the game lose some potentially superb players due to no support or nurturing. It’s all about the ££££ sadly in this game!
It could also be about numbers, too many players to be selected, Jake Kerr springs to mind, albeit he made top level but principle still applies to those lower down those who's aspirations don't always materialise.
If you had 2 players on similar trajectories and one comes from a family with a few quid and he’s in private school and the other is from a council estate at secondary school the former will progress further 99.999999 times out of a hundred and that’s a fact mate,a very sad one but a fact all the same.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by LE18 » Sat May 08, 2021 4:11 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:00 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:52 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:35 pm


Nothing to do with education,it’s just that inner city kids get ignored. I know,I was involved in junior rugby for 8 years and the RFU support was an absolute joke,basically ignored! I know we’ve had some good pros come from the likes of Barkers Butts but they were the exception. I’ve seen the game lose some potentially superb players due to no support or nurturing. It’s all about the ££££ sadly in this game!
It could also be about numbers, too many players to be selected, Jake Kerr springs to mind, albeit he made top level but principle still applies to those lower down those who's aspirations don't always materialise.
If you had 2 players on similar trajectories and one comes from a family with a few quid and he’s in private school and the other is from a council estate at secondary school the former will progress further 99.999999 times out of a hundred and that’s a fact mate,a very sad one but a fact all the same.
You are quite right but the kid at private school will get far better coaching and loads more time practising and playing than the kid at state school who probably gets only a 2 period session a week. You notice the difference in knowledge of laws, playing skills etc when the 2 kids come together in the same club on a Sunday morning. Things widen after 16yrs of age when the private kid cannot play anymore at club level, they are going forward into higher level rugby, some say being unfairly pushed/selected. I don't know, but I do think Private beats state and therefore selection. Anyway that's my view and Itoje proves it.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by Scott1 » Sat May 08, 2021 4:14 pm

LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:11 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:00 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:52 pm


It could also be about numbers, too many players to be selected, Jake Kerr springs to mind, albeit he made top level but principle still applies to those lower down those who's aspirations don't always materialise.
If you had 2 players on similar trajectories and one comes from a family with a few quid and he’s in private school and the other is from a council estate at secondary school the former will progress further 99.999999 times out of a hundred and that’s a fact mate,a very sad one but a fact all the same.
You are quite right but the kid at private school will get far better coaching and loads more time practising and playing than the kid at state school who probably gets only a 2 period session a week. You notice the difference in knowledge of laws, playing skills etc when the 2 kids come together in the same club on a Sunday morning. Things widen after 16yrs of age when the private kid cannot play anymore at club level, they are going forward into higher level rugby, some say being unfairly pushed/selected. I don't know, but I do think Private beats state and therefore selection. Anyway that's my view and Itoje proves it.
Of course it beats it,that’s not my point and you know it! It’s not as bad as tennis rugby union but it’s not far off,if you’ve got money and go to a private school you’ve more chance of making it and that’s wrong,it’s elitist and it stinks! There’s a huge disconnect there and it needs looking at,sadly I don’t think it ever will though!

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Re: Itoje article

Post by JP14 » Sat May 08, 2021 4:17 pm

Interesting how Itoje opined recycled ideas from the 1970s as "a breath of fresh air", but it's good to see sportspeople take a stand on issues they believe.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Itoje article

Post by LE18 » Sat May 08, 2021 4:22 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:14 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:11 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:00 pm


If you had 2 players on similar trajectories and one comes from a family with a few quid and he’s in private school and the other is from a council estate at secondary school the former will progress further 99.999999 times out of a hundred and that’s a fact mate,a very sad one but a fact all the same.
You are quite right but the kid at private school will get far better coaching and loads more time practising and playing than the kid at state school who probably gets only a 2 period session a week. You notice the difference in knowledge of laws, playing skills etc when the 2 kids come together in the same club on a Sunday morning. Things widen after 16yrs of age when the private kid cannot play anymore at club level, they are going forward into higher level rugby, some say being unfairly pushed/selected. I don't know, but I do think Private beats state and therefore selection. Anyway that's my view and Itoje proves it.
Of course it beats it,that’s not my point and you know it! It’s not as bad as tennis rugby union but it’s not far off,if you’ve got money and go to a private school you’ve more chance of making it and that’s wrong,it’s elitist and it stinks! There’s a huge disconnect there and it needs looking at,sadly I don’t think it ever will though!
Have you stopped to consider who would fund more state money to be spent on more time at school, employing specialist coaches for each sport you mention? You would in paying more in taxes, then all those parents who don't have kids interested in sport would soon be shouting out, why are we funding this? Let those with money send their kids to private schools, look how much that saves you in tax. Anyway that's my final comment on this matter.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by SthrnTiger » Sat May 08, 2021 4:38 pm

No doubt those at private school get better coaching and more invested in them and therefore tend to be at a higher standard but this should be taken into account when selecting young players for county and England age groups etc...

In my experience its the exact opposite and trials tend to be a closed shop where its very difficult for someone not at a fashionable school to break through. RFU has been making the right noises around this recently, hopefully this has changed things at grass roots but yet to be seen.

A perfect example of this is all the young players coming through having very familiar surnames.
Last edited by SthrnTiger on Sat May 08, 2021 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by Scott1 » Sat May 08, 2021 4:40 pm

SthrnTiger wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 4:38 pm
No doubt those at private school get better coaching and more invested in them and therefore tend to be at a higher standard but this should be taken into account when selecting young players for county and England age groups etc...

In my experience its the exact opposite and trials tend to be a closed shop where its very difficult for someone not at a fashionable school to break through. RFU has been making the right noises around this recently, hopefully this has changed things at grass roots but yet to be seen.

A perfect example of this is all the young players coming through having very familiar surnames.
Thank you! I really hope they do something about it,but I won’t hold my breath,they’ve been saying this for years!

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Re: Itoje article

Post by chris111 » Sat May 08, 2021 4:58 pm

I’ll admit that your posts leave me grinding my teeth more often than not, Scott....but on this issue we’re ‘brothers in arms’!

Rugby is riddled with elitist attitudes and coexists in a state of symbiotic parasitism with the private school industry - although the two differ for me in that one of them has redeeming features.

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Re: Itoje article

Post by LE18 » Sat May 08, 2021 5:29 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:47 am
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Some may be surprised by the strong views, some may even be affronted. He has my admiration for his activism.
I had said that I would not respond further on this matter but as you have chosen to mock me for trying to be polite to a very young and disrespectable person, I will ask you again why you chose to post a very good article by a very talented player who went to a Private School, funded by a wealthy Nigerian business family, you chose not to mention this, especially after your numerous posts against this sort of thing?
I chose to make a sensible judgement as to why Private appears better and eventually, as he usually does, when Scott cannot provide a sensible solution as to how to solve the problem, he comes out with personal abuse. :smt017 I may be wrong but how would you/ he solve this problem? Teachers don't want more hours to indulge in out of hours sport, so where do you make up the hours and fund the problems? :smt017

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