RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Noggs
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2287
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:41 am
Location: Leicestershire

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by Noggs »

As ever this is just speculation on a poor news day. We have gone through the pros and cons arguments for ring fencing many times and there are arguments both ways. This year has been an exception. We will see what the future holds.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by ourla »

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:46 am If Saracens don't get promoted (unlikely I know) who thinks this will actually happen?
The mostly likely team to win the Championship should it not be Saracens would be Ealing. It would be then be interesting given this stated aiming of going to 14 teams anyway whether they would fudge Saracens into the Prem immediately. But I would imagine they would prefer Sarries to just get it done and then they can work the expansion into 14 out over the summer.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:46 amIf a team breaks the Salary Cap could they still get relegated?
Power to do so is sill in place I believe but clearly wouldn't be undertaken. Would be surprised if anyone was dumb enough to get caught again though.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:46 amNext logical step will be franchises or regions unless there is a realism over player wages as the English game can't support the number of pro clubs it has now in a viable way.
Well that is why they have reduced the cap to get finances under control. Prem is semi franchise these days anyway - Sarries, Wasps, Irish, Sale have all moved about to some extent. No way will rugby in England go regional.
BengalTiger
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by BengalTiger »

In regards to punishment for salary cap breaches it has always been an anomaly that the club gets punished but those that are responsible get away unblemished, if the league was ring fenced and another breach was uncovered it would make more sense for the CEO and DOR and owners to be banned from any involvement with rugby for a period, it will not happen as turkeys don't vote for Xmas.
Wayne Richardson Fan Club
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3838
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:53 am
Location: The Salt Mines

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

I wonder if the Wray family would pass the Wendyball Fit & Proper test to be owners?
To win is not as important as playing with style!
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by ourla »

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:08 pm I wonder if the Wray family would pass the Wendyball Fit & Proper test to be owners?
I don't think football can hold itself up to any more virtuous when it comes to fit and proper testing on owners!
Wayne Richardson Fan Club
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3838
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:53 am
Location: The Salt Mines

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

ourla wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:08 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:08 pm I wonder if the Wray family would pass the Wendyball Fit & Proper test to be owners?
I don't think football can hold itself up to any more virtuous when it comes to fit and proper testing on owners!
That was kind if my point, but they do get a bit squeamish on money related issues, obviously not Human Rights though...
To win is not as important as playing with style!
Goodevibrations
Top Cat
Top Cat
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:38 pm

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by Goodevibrations »

I fully supported the decision to scrap relegation for this season due to games being cancelled. It would have been an absolute farce if a team was relegated by a point when another team had played fewer fixtures and had gained more points due to their fixtures being cancelled. However, I am completely against ringfencing in general. There needs to be consequences for poor performance just as much as there needs to be reward for good performances. I do accept that the current situation is a bit silly seeing as many of the clubs are not capable of coming up but I'd much rather there was a genuine attempt to improve the situation in the championship than just seal off the premiership.
westwinds31
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5976
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 am

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by westwinds31 »

What’s the incentive for clubs in Tier 2 to come top in the Championship ? There’s no trophy, no additional money and certainly no way to play against the best teams in England. If it happens, if I were a Championship club left to kick around Tier 2, I’d refuse to give any Premiership club’s players any game time. Let them play in the meaningless A League or LV Cup.
GETHIN EXILE
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by GETHIN EXILE »

Here's a few radical ideas -

RFU to only pay compensation to clubs for use of players but not pay the actual players, as I'm sure they don't lose any of their club salary while with England. This would save a minimum of £2.4 million which could give each championship side an extra £200,000.
End parachute payments to ensure a more level playing field in the Championship, if this means players having break clauses in contracts then so be it.
Link the salary cap to clubs average match day income.
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by ourla »

westwinds31 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:43 pm What’s the incentive for clubs in Tier 2 to come top in the Championship ? There’s no trophy, no additional money
I don't know what the current situation is but I see no reason why there couldn't be a trophy and prize money.
westwinds31 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:43 pmand certainly no way to play against the best teams in England.
Well, no but that is precisely the point of ring fencing.

As I said above a decision needs to be on exactly what the Championship is supposed to be. A second tier underneath the Premiership or the top tier of the game below the elite and ring fenced Premiership.

In North America there is the concept of Minor League - professional sports leagues which are not regarded as the premier leagues in those sports and operate separately.

In southern hemisphere rugby the primary club teams compete in Super Rugby whilst the next level compete in a professional domestic competition (NZ - Mitre 10, Aus - National Rugby Championship​) so you could argue the Prem acts as Super Rugby in our situation.

Personally I think the Championship could thrive after ring fencing with the right approach. Or it could thrive as a second tier. IF and only if the RFU and PL get their act together, made a decision and put resource into make it happen/work.
Dangerous4
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks.

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by Dangerous4 »

I don't like ring-fencing. What ambition does it leave for Championship clubs? None. It's a "blow you Jack, I'm all right" for Premiership clubs. Very non-demoratic, and unjust. Some clubs will doubtless fall by the wayside, or just fade into mediocrety as a result.

The worst thing that ever happened to rugby union, was the day it turned professional,.
GB72
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by GB72 »

Dangerous4 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:00 pm I don't like ring-fencing. What ambition does it leave for Championship clubs? None. It's a "blow you Jack, I'm all right" for Premiership clubs. Very non-demoratic, and unjust. Some clubs will doubtless fall by the wayside, or just fade into mediocrety as a result.

The worst thing that ever happened to rugby union, was the day it turned professional,.
Just playing devils advocate a bit here but who, with the incentive of promotion, has risen above mediocrity without either a massive cash injection to pay their way into the Premiership or without bankrupting themselves for one season in the top flight. It could be argued that all of these teams that aspire for premiership status and bemoan the lack of promotion have had years to build themselves up to that level but have failed behind big money investors and relegated premiership teams.
ay2oh
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2144
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:53 am
Location: leicester

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by ay2oh »

Disagree with your last statement. I’ve had a season ticket since 1984 and although I enjoyed just rolling up to watch a mid-week game against the likes of Cambridge university there was nothing at stake and therefore didn’t get the juices flowing.
I really enjoy the intensity of the premiership and Europe and the chance to see world class players in front of 20k crowds. But if you prefer to see amateur players in front of 500 people that’s your prerogative .
A2O
westwinds31
Super User
Super User
Posts: 5976
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 am

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by westwinds31 »

ourla wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:47 pm I don't know what the current situation is but I see no reason why there couldn't be a trophy and prize money

Personally I think the Championship could thrive after ring fencing with the right approach. Or it could thrive as a second tier. IF and only if the RFU and PL get their act together, made a decision and put resource into make it happen/work.
You’re aware of the RFUs track record ? There won’t be a trophy, nor will there be the “right approach”. They’ve just fleeced the Championship by reducing the funding to a ridiculous amount.
ourla
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4019
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: RELEGATION SUSPENDED UNTIL 2024-25?

Post by ourla »

westwinds31 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:00 pm
ourla wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:47 pm I don't know what the current situation is but I see no reason why there couldn't be a trophy and prize money

Personally I think the Championship could thrive after ring fencing with the right approach. Or it could thrive as a second tier. IF and only if the RFU and PL get their act together, made a decision and put resource into make it happen/work.
You’re aware of the RFUs track record ? There won’t be a trophy, nor will there be the “right approach”. They’ve just fleeced the Championship by reducing the funding to a ridiculous amount.
Well indeed. But then the question isn't about ringfencing, it's about the RFU.
Post Reply