Starting XV

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Noggs
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Re: Starting XV

Post by Noggs » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:51 pm

How long have we longed to have these problems? The more playing time they have together the more the combination will gel and the more choices SB has to hand. We need this as players will inevitably suffer injuries and (hopefully not) be the subject of match bans. The key thing is that 'key' players can be missing and we can still go on and win games. Bath away will be tough but last season you would have given us little chance of a win for most away games. This year I think Bath will be more than a little worried.
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johnthegriff
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Re: Starting XV

Post by johnthegriff » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:25 pm

It is not a fifteen man team anymore, it is a 23. as the chances are that at least eight will be unfit at any one time it is a 31, of course four or five may on international duty or enforced rest it is a 36. I reckon we have a 36 with four or five others pushing for places, I am not sure we or our opponents will ever know exactly what our first fifteen is, Borthwick has so many options to choose from it is impossible to predict his selection. We fans have so many alternatives to suggest when the team loses and we can say where he went wrong.

Noggs
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Re: Starting XV

Post by Noggs » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:49 pm

The particular team we are playing will also influence selection.
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ourla
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Re: Starting XV

Post by ourla » Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:00 pm

With all due respect to the opening poster I don't think it's a question that needs to be answered.

You need your squad players and back ups as much as you need your front liners.

You could always ask the question if we were in the Prem or Champs Cup Final next Saturday what would are starting XV be. But then at the moment Nadalo and Montoya are injured and 4-7 are all bit rotation positions with the bench being almost as important as the starters.

As others have said better to look at the width and depth of the squad as a whole and the options available.
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kk20gb30
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Re: Starting XV

Post by kk20gb30 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:44 am

Concur with those who believe it is more than just a simple case of a best or full strength starting XV.Our game has changed and developed over time , increased squad depth and ability there in has become far more common place today.In terms of ability there will of course always be stand out performers and those who when fit and available will play but strong and reliable alternative playing options have in recent times become more and more important to successful Club Sides.Injuries, suspensions , rest and rotation mean the same side cannot be picked week in week out as do variations in game plan ; different players bring different facets and qualities to the table but no loss in effectiveness come match time.
A strong squad may elicit the question of 'Who do we pick ?' It is though a nice problem to have and history shows that a winning team or club has strength in depth and that winning and success acts as glue in keeping these strong components together.
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Welford56
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Re: Starting XV

Post by Welford56 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:07 am

kk20gb30 wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:44 am
Concur with those who believe it is more than just a simple case of a best or full strength starting XV.Our game has changed and developed over time , increased squad depth and ability there in has become far more common place today.In terms of ability there will of course always be stand out performers and those who when fit and available will play but strong and reliable alternative playing options have in recent times become more and more important to successful Club Sides.Injuries, suspensions , rest and rotation mean the same side cannot be picked week in week out as do variations in game plan ; different players bring different facets and qualities to the table but no loss in effectiveness come match time.
A strong squad may elicit the question of 'Who do we pick ?' It is though a nice problem to have and history shows that a winning team or club has strength in depth and that winning and success acts as glue in keeping these strong components together.
This sums it up :smt023

For me, the bold comes through the integration of those fringe/development players into the match day side a few at a time, so they are playing and able to gel with the supposed 'first choice' players. Saracens, Exeter, NZ etc. have excelled at this by giving opportunities where they are earned in training to play with the big boys at the weekend - show what you can bring and instill confidence in the coaches (and prove to yourself) that you can do the job. Wholesale team changes aren't good for anyone, you will end up developing two distinct teams. We fell into this trap with GM slightly but I can understand the pressure he was under to target matches for points with the 'first team' then having to massively rotate for other fixtures. The problem being when the form of a few players drops, or they're fatigued, but still picked on name/reputation then the starting XV has a blip and points are dropped.

Without the risk of relegation and pressure for points, I like the way Borthwick is drip-feeding and blooding the youngsters & newbies into the match day side. Mixing the experience across the entire 23, not just the XV, as similarly to the above it's no good having them all on the bench to be unloaded together and play with only half a team of experienced heads on the pitch. Given time you will have built a squad where every player knows how we want to play, knows that if they put their hand up in training they will be rewarded with their chances, knows that they're not just viewed as a 'back-up member' for concessionary matches. Before you know it there are no concessionary matches, we're competing on all fronts and there is a winning mentality across the squad. The starting XV/23 then gets picked based on merit, form, tactics, the opposition etc.

No loss in effectiveness. That's the plan. Simple :smt003

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Re: Starting XV

Post by Chobbsy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:45 am

dunc wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 am
For me it is

1 Genge
2 Montoya
3 Cole
4 Wells
5 Martin
6 Liebenberg
7 Reffell
8 Wiese
9 Youngs
10 Ford
11 Nadolo
12 Scott
13 Moroni
14 Murimurivalu
15 Stewart
For me, Murimurivalu although really steady isn't setting the world alight so I would say on Saturday's showing Harry Potter has moved ahead of him
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Noggs
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Re: Starting XV

Post by Noggs » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:22 am

There is a separate thread for the Bath game. I believe this thread is all about whether or not we have a 'first XV' or as most are suggesting the subject is far more complicated.
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!

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