Away vs Bath 18th April

[Dangerous4]

A tough one for Tigers, but one we can win, if the lads gel and are determined enough.

[RagingBull]

I reckon we will miss Liebenberg and Montoya in our maul game and will struggle with this one.

[Traveller]

I reckon we will miss Liebenberg and Montoya in our maul game and will struggle with this one.

Agreed. But to be fair just about ever team would miss Montoya, and many Liebenberg.

[OakhamTiger32]

I reckon we will miss Liebenberg and Montoya in our maul game and will struggle with this one.

Agreed. But to be fair just about ever team would miss Montoya, and many Liebenberg.

Agreed. We will 100% certain miss them both as they are world class players and nailed on starters at 2 and 6. Both have a huge impact on the field and Liebenberg in particular really seems to perform wonders in our mauls. So we will undoubtedly miss them. Youngs and Martin aren’t bad replacements mind you but it is a much tougher challenge without the aforementioned players that’s for sure

[Goshengareth]

You look at the Bath team and wonder how on earth they’re not higher up the league.

If we win this one, I think we can fairly say we’ve progressed further and quicker than we could have realistically hoped.

Last 2 seasons we’d have lost by 40 and the match would have been dead inside 30 minutes.

Somewhere between those 2 outcomes (us winning versus us capitulating) is the likely outcome. Hopefully closer to the win than the capitulation!

[johnthegriff]

I read in Travellers post that in January 20/20 we were unfit, couldn't win a line out etc etc. In fact a look at results will show that pre pandemic we were actually on the way to recovery, a 30- 30 draw with Quins, defeating Bristol 31-18, Cardiff 30- 20, a losing bonus point away to Pau, a loss away to Bath 13- 10 and an 18-9 victory over Wasps. Results a bit mixed but not terrible the final game before shut down away to Saracens was a defeat but it was a good performance.. The early part of the season had been affected by the absence of 11 or 12 of our first team away at the World Cup and with of course the England boys being the last to return. We were not good but we were not as bad as some seem pleased to think.
We are now under Steve Borthwick building a stronger and better squad and we are moving forward and recovering from the mistake of sacking Cocker and allowing non rugby professionals to interfere in recruitment and retention of players and coaches.

[ay2oh]

Agree with most of what John the griff says apart from sacking cockers. We were in decline under his leadership and I believe that Borthwick is a much better coach and is picking the side on merit not on who his pals are. He is also giving youth a chance.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I read in Travellers post that in January 20/20 we were unfit, couldn't win a line out etc etc. In fact a look at results will show that pre pandemic we were actually on the way to recovery, a 30- 30 draw with Quins, defeating Bristol 31-18, Cardiff 30- 20, a losing bonus point away to Pau, a loss away to Bath 13- 10 and an 18-9 victory over Wasps. Results a bit mixed but not terrible the final game before shut down away to Saracens was a defeat but it was a good performance.. The early part of the season had been affected by the absence of 11 or 12 of our first team away at the World Cup and with of course the England boys being the last to return. We were not good but we were not as bad as some seem pleased to think.
We are now under Steve Borthwick building a stronger and better squad and we are moving forward and recovering from the mistake of sacking Cocker and allowing non rugby professionals to interfere in recruitment and retention of players and coaches.

Yes, we weren't completely uncompetitive but we still had a habit of falling away.

Then we had a senario where we lost a lot of players, the likes of Holmes, May, Kalamafoni etc who had been some of our brighter players of the latter seasons.

We were then heavily linked to the likes of Alemanno (International std lock) which then (likely due to the pandemic) became Enever.

All that topped off by the players not signing new contracts being played out in front of the media.

So what Borthwick walked into as his job in the first place was not even the standard of team we'd had pre pandemic (which wasn't a world beating side)

Ok in some ways having such a big clear out would have meant he could get guys he wanted in sooner, but shaping that many players at once takes time.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

y

I read in Travellers post that in January 20/20 we were unfit, couldn't win a line out etc etc. In fact a look at results will show that pre pandemic we were actually on the way to recovery, a 30- 30 draw with Quins, defeating Bristol 31-18, Cardiff 30- 20, a losing bonus point away to Pau, a loss away to Bath 13- 10 and an 18-9 victory over Wasps. Results a bit mixed but not terrible the final game before shut down away to Saracens was a defeat but it was a good performance.. The early part of the season had been affected by the absence of 11 or 12 of our first team away at the World Cup and with of course the England boys being the last to return. We were not good but we were not as bad as some seem pleased to think.
We are now under Steve Borthwick building a stronger and better squad and we are moving forward and recovering from the mistake of sacking Cocker and allowing non rugby professionals to interfere in recruitment and retention of players and coaches.

That's pretty much my view on where the team was pre Covid Shutdown, we weren't quite as bad as we were, but not great, I think the trend was upward, the fall out of the shutdown hastened the departure of some of the problems within the squad but from my viewpoint maybe only one side of the problems have departed.
I don't fully agree with the Cockers bit, he was blind to the truth at Tigers & contributed to his own downfall, but was he sold short by those above at the club & by player power below him, that the the club has allowed over the years, his sacking has actually helped him personally develop within the game. What we really lost when he went was his Forward Coaching.

We needed the outside voice after Cockers was dismissed, the great advantage Borthwick has is no previous with Tigers.

[Traveller]

You look at the Bath team and wonder how on earth they’re not higher up the league.

If we win this one, I think we can fairly say we’ve progressed further and quicker than we could have realistically hoped.

Last 2 seasons we’d have lost by 40 and the match would have been dead inside 30 minutes.

Somewhere between those 2 outcomes (us winning versus us capitulating) is the likely outcome. Hopefully closer to the win than the capitulation!

Agreed. It’s all about expectations isn’t it. In spite of Tigers collapse over the last few years, in the last decade (including this season) Bath have only finished ahead of us in the league table on three occasions. The last two seasons and 2014-2015. Even if they finish ahead of us this season, all it will mean is that they finished ahead of the team ranked 11th for the last two seasons, and still won’t be competing for premiership silverware. Given their playing resources that is failure on a grand scale. I know which train I would rather be on.

[Traveller]

I read in Travellers post that in January 20/20 we were unfit, couldn't win a line out etc etc. In fact a look at results will show that pre pandemic we were actually on the way to recovery, a 30- 30 draw with Quins, defeating Bristol 31-18, Cardiff 30- 20, a losing bonus point away to Pau, a loss away to Bath 13- 10 and an 18-9 victory over Wasps. Results a bit mixed but not terrible the final game before shut down away to Saracens was a defeat but it was a good performance.. The early part of the season had been affected by the absence of 11 or 12 of our first team away at the World Cup and with of course the England boys being the last to return. We were not good but we were not as bad as some seem pleased to think.
We are now under Steve Borthwick building a stronger and better squad and we are moving forward and recovering from the mistake of sacking Cocker and allowing non rugby professionals to interfere in recruitment and retention of players and coaches.

I agree. I was using exaggeration to counter the insight that, a driving maul in itself isn't enough, and that we need more variety to our play. The subtext being - the jury is out on SB. It isn't as far as this juror is concerned.

Given the fact that Youngs, Itoje and Hartley have all recently described SB as the best forwards coach in the world. My hunch is he knows Tigers need a bit more variation. And credit where credit is due, the greatest pleasure for me has been seeing the likes of Steward, Martin, JVP, Chessum play, and whilst SB can claim credit for playing them, they were in the system before his arrival. It's just great watching JVP and thinking - he can change a game.

[RagingBull]

The results wasn’t too bad but I thought the performances didn’t really improve outside the Bristol game.

[jgriffin]

I read in Travellers post that in January 20/20 we were unfit, couldn't win a line out etc etc. In fact a look at results will show that pre pandemic we were actually on the way to recovery, a 30- 30 draw with Quins, defeating Bristol 31-18, Cardiff 30- 20, a losing bonus point away to Pau, a loss away to Bath 13- 10 and an 18-9 victory over Wasps. Results a bit mixed but not terrible the final game before shut down away to Saracens was a defeat but it was a good performance.. The early part of the season had been affected by the absence of 11 or 12 of our first team away at the World Cup and with of course the England boys being the last to return. We were not good but we were not as bad as some seem pleased to think.
We are now under Steve Borthwick building a stronger and better squad and we are moving forward and recovering from the mistake of sacking Cocker and allowing non rugby professionals to interfere in recruitment and retention of players and coaches.

I will be probably the only one on here to agree with you

[wellstiger]

Barff "should" win this one.
I hope that we get no red cards and yellows down to a minimum. Keeping 15 on the pitch is a must, because if Barff run the ball out wide we will be found wanting.
Then who knows - if we convert our points and kick wisely we may do a Proper Job on the Auld enemy.
I like most am looking forwards to this one. Who blinks first kinda game.
Come on you TIGERS. ( I need the local bragging rites.)

[Dokie]

Agree with most of what John the griff says apart from sacking cockers. We were in decline under his leadership and I believe that Borthwick is a much better coach and is picking the side on merit not on who his pals are. He is also giving youth a chance.

You took the words out of my mouth. Sacking Cockers was the right thing to do. The problems started with the subsequent recruitment.