FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by jgriffin » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:23 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:17 pm
BFG wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:20 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:53 am
Isn't it rather presumptuous that Kelly will want to play for England?
Why would it be rather presumptuous given that he was born in Manchester?
:smt017
Well he turned out for Ireland U20s...
Martin Johnson turned out for the ABs......
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4522
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:57 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:45 pm
Dombradt at 6 would give you some leeway if you play Simmonds at 8.
Not really got the workrate Eddie likes on the flank. As much as I'd like to see it trialled I don't think there's any chance Eddie will select a backrow containing both Simmonds and Dombrandt. Billy for his faults does work hard and carry all day into the tight exchanges. Neither Simmonds not Dombrandt carry like that.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6381
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by Scott1 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:11 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:57 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:45 pm
Dombradt at 6 would give you some leeway if you play Simmonds at 8.
Not really got the workrate Eddie likes on the flank. As much as I'd like to see it trialled I don't think there's any chance Eddie will select a backrow containing both Simmonds and Dombrandt. Billy for his faults does work hard and carry all day into the tight exchanges. Neither Simmonds not Dombrandt carry like that.
If Billy goes on tour,Barbary at 8?

No6_Flanker
Top Cat
Top Cat
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Up North.

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by No6_Flanker » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:38 pm

Rather than post another 34-man squad, I’m going to discuss some trends and leave you with some questions:

1. Rodd, seems to be starting ahead of R Harrison lately, I’ve only seen him mentioned in Greenwood’s Telegraph piece on the summer tour “...can get a few turnovers...” but what’s he like at scrum time?

Genge, started the Argentina tour 4 years ago, it’s up to Eddie whether he starts him to develop his leadership or instead lets someone else (Obano) get international experience.

West, called up to the 6 Nations squad before Mako recovered. I’ve watched Wasps a few times this season and hasn’t caught my eye. I did hear that he is handy around the field?

2. McGuigan, surprised that no-one has mentioned him, playing well for Falcons recently.

Singleton, he’s fallen behind H Walker in the pecking order at Gloucs, not sure what he’s done to earn a place on an international tour.

Barbeary, hasn’t started a game at hooker in the Premiership so shouldn’t be considered for anything but back row for this tour.

Langdon, seems to be 2nd choice for Sale, he can play 7 as well, is he solid enough for hooker?

3. Heyes, seems to be rated by Jones, haven’t been too impressed with his scrummaging for us lately. His knee often seems to hit the deck during the set.

P Hill, has certainly got a turn of pace for a prop. Again how’s his scrummaging?

Keast and Street, if they’re not starting Premiership games regularly should they be touring?

4 & 5. Launchbury, Ribbans, J Hill, and (begrudgingly) Ewels. The real issue with lock is who can provide enough power in the engine room to partner Itoje. Lawes couldn’t against South Africa in the World Cup Final and few locks can. J Hill didn’t play that well in the 6 Nations but looked in top nick for Exeter at the weekend.

Isiekwe, (see above) has he got enough grunt? And he’s been playing 6 mostly for Saints.

Martin, hasn’t yet started for us in the second row, until he fills out in a couple of years should probably just be considered at 6.

Kpoku, not sure how well you can judge him given he’s in the Championship.

6. T Hill, smashed the U20s, but has he gone off the boil lately? Likely affected by Worcs recent slump. Him and Martin do fit the bill of big 6 who can jump (as does Dombrandt).

7. Earl, is the next cab off the rank but I do question his nouse and doggedness. Can certainly shift but gave away a few penalties in his replacement appearances for England.

Evans, looks to be playing well for Quins with plenty of involvements in defence and attack.

Ludlam, what’s his true position? Bit of a jack of all trades, and has done well for England but will he ever be world class in any of the three positions?

8. Simmonds, has to go on the plane. Didn’t set the world alight when he was last picked by Eddie but neither did the whole team circa 2018. Clearly better than club level so deserves a second shot.

Barbeary, certainly playing well in attack, but is he a bit small for an international 8?

Dombrandt, has plenty in attack but question marks about his defence? Can you afford to play him and Simmonds together if the game turns into an arm wrestle?

9. Robson, interesting that no-one has mentioned him in any of their squads. Looks to have played himself out of contention during the 6 Nations.

Spencer, ridiculous that he hasn’t been looked at in training squads. Showing leadership and decent place-kicking for Bath, let’s see what he can do at international level.

Randall, shame he got injured, needs to build up some form starting with taking his club jersey back from Uren.

Mitchell, clearly favoured by Eddie, suffered from second season syndrome last year, but looked sharp this weekend.

J Maunder, never been that impressed by his skills, can anyone prove me wrong?

JVP & Quirke, plenty of competition so might be lucky to tour, give them a chance to have a full pre-season and then nail down a starting jersey at their clubs.

10. Smith, in great form, placekicking and running. Plays similarly to Ford, so why don’t we build around this style of player at 10. We’ve lacked a running threat at 10 for a while now and the rest of the back line suffer for it.

Simmonds, plays similar to Farrell, question marks about what he is like behind a pack going backwards. Should be in with a shout if only for last season’s achievements.

Umaga, favoured by Eddie but makes too many errors for my liking.

11 & 14. Thorley, was in top form last season but gone off the boil after he was messed around a bit by Jones.

Hassell-Collins, runs really hard and is scoring plenty for Irish. Seems to be outplaying B Loader so should be ahead in the pecking order.

Radwan, electric pace but what’re his core skills (positioning, kick chase, high ball) like? Sounds like he’s currently injured as I haven’t seen him on the team sheet recently.

Cokanasiga, showcased his natural talent against Australia so can clearly play at that level. Hasn’t hit his previous heights lately, and doesn’t look to be at his best. Questions over his positioning?

Odogwu, has great acceleration and must be miffed to not have made the bench when Slade pulled out of the Ireland game. Again, is his high ball and kicking good enough to be an international winger? Let’s see.

McConnochie, great in the air and makes good yards, but is he the future?

Bassett, also good aerially but not the youngest of the contenders. Does seem to play well for Wasps.

Naulago, certainly scoring plenty for Bristol, what’s his defence and positioning like?

12. Lawrence, inside centre isn’t his best position, hasn’t made an impact at international level because no-one passed him the ball! See how Scotland played in Redpath as an example of how to get a young centre into the game.

Kelly, showing promising signs for us, hope he isn’t nicked by Ireland, needs to keep his head down and keep playing well. One to watch.

O’Conor (please spell his name right), looks decent for Bristol in several positions. Thought he was more of a 13 than a 12 (like most players) but certainly runs hard and has pace.

Devoto, can do just about everything, but can he takes his game up a level? The only way to see might just be to start him and see how he goes.

13. Marchant, is clearly class, there’s a lot of competition at 13 but he showed up well in the World Cup warm up games. Might suffer from the lack of a bigger 12. Could be the future at 13.

Slade, can obviously play at international level but makes a few errors (dropped balls and missed tackles). Another victim of the lack of direct runners in the England back line.

S James, has been in and around various squads. What’s his best position? Can he be better than any of the current options there?

Dingwall, been called up a couple of times, reads the game well and is composed in defence, is his attack as good as the other contenders?

15. Steward, solid under the high ball but can he take his attacking game to the next level? If he can then he might be the full package.

Malins, hasn’t been able to show his skills at international level, definitely adds some vision and direction from fullback, something that other 15s might lack.

Hodge, plenty of gas but needs to get some more game time and secure his place as 2nd choice fullback at Exeter. What’s his game like outside of the highlights reel?

Parton, has been playing pretty well for Irish, I do wonder about his top end pace but it doesn’t seem to be holding him back at the moment.

L James, totally reliable and makes very few errors but does he have that X-factor?

Furbank, capped but played pretty badly in his appearances, didn’t play well at the start of this season but is apparently in better form of late. Has anyone seen how he did at flyhalf? I’m intrigued, but he has to be playing out of his skin (at 15) to make up for his previous caps.

Wayne Richardson Fan Club
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2581
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:53 am
Location: Barrowford, near the Witches

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:51 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:23 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:17 pm
BFG wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:20 pm


Why would it be rather presumptuous given that he was born in Manchester?
:smt017
Well he turned out for Ireland U20s...
Martin Johnson turned out for the ABs......
& nearly didn't come back......a massive Sliding Doors moment.
To win is not as important as playing with style!

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4522
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:02 pm

Scott1 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:11 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:57 pm
Scott1 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:45 pm
Dombradt at 6 would give you some leeway if you play Simmonds at 8.
Not really got the workrate Eddie likes on the flank. As much as I'd like to see it trialled I don't think there's any chance Eddie will select a backrow containing both Simmonds and Dombrandt. Billy for his faults does work hard and carry all day into the tight exchanges. Neither Simmonds not Dombrandt carry like that.
If Billy goes on tour,Barbary at 8?
I wouldn't select Billy even he didn't tour but I'd find a space for Barbeary, Dombrandt and Simmonds in the squad this summer. Let then fight it out between them, no preferred option go and win the shirt in training. Nothing wrong with some healthy competition. Can look at Barbeary's hooker skills whilst he's in camp as well. Make it a meritocracy and then Billy will know he's got to come out the blocks in the new season because there's someone else in possession of the shirt he wants. I think the England squad needs a bit more of pressure for places

TigerFeetSteve
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:12 pm

Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:17 pm
BFG wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:20 pm
Wayne Richardson Fan Club wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:53 am
Isn't it rather presumptuous that Kelly will want to play for England?
Why would it be rather presumptuous given that he was born in Manchester?
:smt017
Well he turned out for Ireland U20s...
From what I'm led to believe (which is not a fully reliable source)

He's Ireland qualified through his grandparents. He wasn't asked to play Eng U20's so it was never choosing Ireland over England, it was playing for the one who picked him.

He also tweeted after the Newcastle win this pic of him as a youngster wearing an England rugby shirt... Doubt many who have nailed their colours to Ireland shutting out would be spreading pics of them in an England rugby shirt on social media.

https://twitter.com/DanielRossKelly/sta ... 37092?s=19
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

RagingBull
Super User
Super User
Posts: 9556
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by RagingBull » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:18 pm

If Simmonds was too tour I reckon he might play 7.
6. Martin
7. Simmonds
8. Dombrandt

Anyone?

LekkerTigers
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:35 pm

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by LekkerTigers » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:28 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:18 pm
If Simmonds was too tour I reckon he might play 7.
6. Martin
7. Simmonds
8. Dombrandt

Anyone?
I don’t think it matters too much what number he wears. He’ll be packing down at 8 on attacking scrums, because his acceleration off the back is better than Dombrandt’s, and at 7 on defensive scrums.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6381
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by Scott1 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:55 pm

Yes like that BR,and Dombrandt could pack down at 8 in a scrum near our own line where we need a Weise like charge to get us out of trouble.

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4522
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:59 pm

No6_Flanker wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:38 pm
Rather than post another 34-man squad, I’m going to discuss some trends and leave you with some questions:

1. Rodd, seems to be starting ahead of R Harrison lately, I’ve only seen him mentioned in Greenwood’s Telegraph piece on the summer tour “...can get a few turnovers...” but what’s he like at scrum time?

Genge, started the Argentina tour 4 years ago, it’s up to Eddie whether he starts him to develop his leadership or instead lets someone else (Obano) get international experience.

West, called up to the 6 Nations squad before Mako recovered. I’ve watched Wasps a few times this season and hasn’t caught my eye. I did hear that he is handy around the field?

2. McGuigan, surprised that no-one has mentioned him, playing well for Falcons recently.

Singleton, he’s fallen behind H Walker in the pecking order at Gloucs, not sure what he’s done to earn a place on an international tour.

Barbeary, hasn’t started a game at hooker in the Premiership so shouldn’t be considered for anything but back row for this tour.

Langdon, seems to be 2nd choice for Sale, he can play 7 as well, is he solid enough for hooker?

3. Heyes, seems to be rated by Jones, haven’t been too impressed with his scrummaging for us lately. His knee often seems to hit the deck during the set.

P Hill, has certainly got a turn of pace for a prop. Again how’s his scrummaging?

Keast and Street, if they’re not starting Premiership games regularly should they be touring?
Rodd has been playing well for Sale looks a fantastic prospect seems solid in all areas so far. Qualities for Scotland and I assume Wales as well so might be beneficial to get him capped early.

West is odd for a Wasps prop in that he appears solid at the set piece but quiet in the loose. Was in the shadow squad for the 6N. Worth a go and at 25 is prime age.

Gengey has a young family and had no pre season it makes more sense to let him stay home and get himself psyched up for the new season. A bit of competition for his position will probably see him come out firing. Dunn going on tour is the obvious leadership candidate for me.

McGuigan is now 28 and I don't think is Eddie's type of hooker. He's great in the loose but not so much at the set pieces. Langdon looks a little bigger and seems to be all action and at 23 could be a good long term option. I wasn't aware of him playing openside but he certainly gets about enough. Sale's lineout looks better when he's at hooker.

Heyes doesn't look as good with de Bruin at loosehead. De Bruin looked under a lot of pressure Vs Connacht, he prefers tighthead so could just be struggling and Heyes being a bit younger hasn't got the experience to make up for a struggling loosehead. Heyes has played well this season and puts a big shift in the loose. Currently the form young English tighthead and as you say both Least and Street have struggled to make an impact at Chiefs this season.

Paul Hill just signed a new deal and has been getting some good reviews (I've not seen many Saints game this season) at 26 he's a good age to bring back into the fold.

sam16111986
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4522
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: Shepshed

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by sam16111986 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:01 pm

RagingBull wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:18 pm
If Simmonds was too tour I reckon he might play 7.
6. Martin
7. Simmonds
8. Dombrandt

Anyone?
Not much over the ball there but against USA and Canada we probably wouldn't need it. Pretty explosive in attack.

TigerFeetSteve
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:16 pm

Is this team for the summer tour in the USA or the proposed Saxons fixture vs Scotland A?
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 6381
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by Scott1 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:18 pm

TigerFeetSteve wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:16 pm
Is this team for the summer tour in the USA or the proposed Saxons fixture vs Scotland A?
Mine is for USA but you can do both if you like 👍

TigerFeetSteve
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

Post by TigerFeetSteve » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:11 pm

Eng tour

Steward
Hassell-Collins (Watson - Lions)
Lawrence
Marchant
May
Smith
Randall
Genge
Cowan-Dickie
Stuart (Sinkler - Lions)
Lauchbury (c)
Ribbans (Itoje - Lions)
Ludlam (Curry - Lions)
Simmonds (Underhill - Lions)
Dombrant

Dunn
Obano
Heyes
Ewels
Barbeary
Youngs
Ford (Farrell- Lions, but rest if not there)
Malins

I'd give especially in the backline a lot of the young lads a start, but have a bench you can unload experience from.

Saxons vs Scotland A

Parton
Odogwu
O'Conor
Devoto
Thorley
Simmonds
Quirke
Rodd
Langdon
Williams
Isiekwe
Wells
Hill T
Evans
Hughes (c)

McGuigan
West
Street
Ludlow
Martin
JvP
Umaga
Kelly
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No6_Flanker and 2 guests