FANTASY SAXONS/ENGLAND SUMMER TOUR 23

[JP14]

If Simmonds was too tour I reckon he might play 7.
6. Martin
7. Simmonds
8. Dombrandt

Anyone?

Simmonds is a quality player, and can make a turnover or two, but regularly enough to play 7? I'm not convinced. I very rarely agree with Rugbyinsideline, but I think he's correct in saying that Simmonds' best position is Number 20 off the bench as a finisher, even though that tactic of Jones hasn't been as potent as they were circa 2017.

[No6_Flanker]

Rodd has been playing well for Sale looks a fantastic prospect seems solid in all areas so far. Qualities for Scotland and I assume Wales as well so might be beneficial to get him capped early.

West is odd for a Wasps prop in that he appears solid at the set piece but quiet in the loose. Was in the shadow squad for the 6N. Worth a go and at 25 is prime age.

Gengey has a young family and had no pre season it makes more sense to let him stay home and get himself psyched up for the new season. A bit of competition for his position will probably see him come out firing. Dunn going on tour is the obvious leadership candidate for me.

McGuigan is now 28 and I don't think is Eddie's type of hooker. He's great in the loose but not so much at the set pieces. Langdon looks a little bigger and seems to be all action and at 23 could be a good long term option. I wasn't aware of him playing openside but he certainly gets about enough. Sale's lineout looks better when he's at hooker.

Heyes doesn't look as good with de Bruin at loosehead. De Bruin looked under a lot of pressure Vs Connacht, he prefers tighthead so could just be struggling and Heyes being a bit younger hasn't got the experience to make up for a struggling loosehead. Heyes has played well this season and puts a big shift in the loose. Currently the form young English tighthead and as you say both Least and Street have struggled to make an impact at Chiefs this season.

Paul Hill just signed a new deal and has been getting some good reviews (I've not seen many Saints game this season) at 26 he's a good age to bring back into the fold.

Just realised that I may have confused Curtis Langdon with Cameron Nield!

Good call on giving Genge some time off too.

[No6_Flanker]

Eng tour

Steward
Hassell-Collins (Watson - Lions)
Lawrence
Marchant
May
Smith
Randall
Genge
Cowan-Dickie
Stuart (Sinkler - Lions)
Lauchbury (c)
Ribbans (Itoje - Lions)
Ludlam (Curry - Lions)
Simmonds (Underhill - Lions)
Dombrant

Dunn
Obano
Heyes
Ewels
Barbeary
Youngs
Ford (Farrell- Lions, but rest if not there)
Malins

I like the idea of Ford going on tour but as back up to Smith, would be a good opportunity for him to mentor the next 10.

[BFG]

There is a clear lack of understanding of what occurred at the scrum against Connacht on this topic and it's also relevant to English scrummaging.
De Bruin was excellent against Connacht, after Sir had pinged Heyes early on and demanded more height De Bruin tried to protect his team brilliantly.
The English props with the same level of ability to adapt to high pressure situations and not get rattled at the highest level is thin after Marler and Cole.
Scotland and Ireland have taken England's scrum this year.
It's a big area that needs a lot of work.

[sam16111986]

There is a clear lack of understanding of what occurred at the scrum against Connacht on this topic and it's also relevant to English scrummaging.
De Bruin was excellent against Connacht, after Sir had pinged Heyes early on and demanded more height De Bruin tried to protect his team brilliantly.

The first penalty was against Heyes but de Bruin went to ground first and the ref was in the other side so may have just pinged the prop in front of him. De Bruin got pinged for the second scrum penalty as he again went down first. After that he stabilised well, he is after all a good operator but I think he is merely solid at loosehead as opposed to tighthead where he looks like he could be destructive (him and Genge Vs Bayonne?). Just a bit unfortunate for de Bruin that we have young tightheads we want to develop and Coley so that he isn't going to play in his better position he's going to play where we need him to cover.

[KiwiTig]

You’re incorrect BFG ! You are commenting on what you heard the commentator say and not what happened and certainly not what sir awarded the penalty for. !

[BFG]

There is a clear lack of understanding of what occurred at the scrum against Connacht on this topic and it's also relevant to English scrummaging.
De Bruin was excellent against Connacht, after Sir had pinged Heyes early on and demanded more height De Bruin tried to protect his team brilliantly.

The first penalty was against Heyes but de Bruin went to ground first and the ref was in the other side so may have just pinged the prop in front of him. De Bruin got pinged for the second scrum penalty as he again went down first. After that he stabilised well, he is after all a good operator but I think he is merely solid at loosehead as opposed to tighthead where he looks like he could be destructive (him and Genge Vs Bayonne?). Just a bit unfortunate for de Bruin that we have young tightheads we want to develop and Coley so that he isn't going to play in his better position he's going to play where we need him to cover.

De Bruin is an excellent prop and you're wrongly questioning his ability when what he was doing was protecting his team in reaction to Sir wanting more height.

[KiwiTig]

I don’t think anyone is questioning the outstanding ability of De Bruin. We are questioning your knowledge and understanding of why the first penalty was given !

[BFG]

I don’t think anyone is questioning the outstanding ability of De Bruin. We are questioning your knowledge and understanding of why the first penalty was given !

You're backtracking now.
De Bruin deserves credit for looking after a young TH finding his way.
There's plenty to be learned from that and for England without the Marler and Cole combination.

[Scott1]

The penalty was rightly given on De Bruins side,nothing to do with Heyes. The second one was a bit dodgy but at the time it happened I said that De Bruin quickly needed to adjust and get the ref back on side,and he did. Sign of a good prop,but let’s not wrongly blame Heyes here!

[Scott1]

OakhamTiger32 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:21 pm
“This could be a long night at the scrum”

Refs got it in for De Bruin by the looks of it,have to get him back on side

[KiwiTig]

I agree Scott1

[KiwiTig]

No one is backtracking and no one is discrediting De Bruin we are merely pointing out the facts of the refs decision

[Chobbsy]

I’ll move this here if anyone wants a go,hopefully they get a tour!
Feel free to fill in the blanks!
1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Heyes
4.
5. Martin
6. Dombrandt
7. Evans
8. Simmonds
9. Randall
10. Simmonds
11.
12. Lawrence
13. Odogwu
14.
15. Steward

This is my take on a hybrid team if there was only one tour. Please feel free to name a England tour team and a Saxons one if you would prefer

At least 1 Simmonds will be with the Lions

That’s a bold call,Faletau will go for sure. Will Gatland gamble on Billy V? Can’t see Joe going with Sexton,Biggar,Farrell,Ford and Russell in the mix and Hogg covering 10. Sam maybe as a bolter,Joe no chance imo.

Not sure about Joe, but Sam is going

[BFG]

The penalty was rightly given on De Bruins side,nothing to do with Heyes. The second one was a bit dodgy but at the time it happened I said that De Bruin quickly needed to adjust and get the ref back on side,and he did. Sign of a good prop,but let’s not wrongly blame Heyes here!

Let's also not wrongly blame De Bruin.
Why does blame need to be attached to an individual at all, instead of understanding that it was simply managing the game to play to the ref to get the right result.