LEICESTER TIGERS 2020/21 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD EPISODE VI: The Return of the Burns

[Pundit]

I think White's potential has been underestimated, and am sorry he's gone. He'll probably develop well at Exiles, and be one of those ex-Tigers who comes back to bite us. Found him more than promising playing for England v the BaBas.

[Snoopydog68]

White didn't get the chance because a younger academy player excelled when he played where as White was never more than ok

TBH I expected Simmons to surpass him in attacking mode, injuries allowing, as has JvP.

That is a fair point; he almost became the number 2 by default with Simmons injuries and Harrison retiring.

Don’t feel the same as other reference Lewis; there are better, younger (cheaper) talents behind him in Henderson, Martin and Chessum. It’s not he’s not had a chance, just they offer more and more potential.

The key word there - CHEAPER! Pre-covid Lewis would have been brought through the team and the others would have been another year in the wings. White was pushed from 2nd choice to 4th with the arrival of Wigglesworth - JVP and White could have both got game time with Ben Youngs away on international duty but Wigglesworth took that away from White. He would have looked at his options asked his agent to find him another club and the perfect fit for his private life was London Irish. Both White and Lewis no longer fit in with the plan at Tigers that's why they have been moved on. They've let some serious talent go with the development lads and some of the main squad in my opinion. But Borthwick knows what he's doing and I don't. Let's see what he can do next season and hopefully get us in to the top 4.

[Offside]

Was White showing enough quality rather than potential , in the games he did play to have him and JVP, an unknown quantity, as the only scrum halves with Ben Youngs away? WW or similar at 10 probably was needed to reliably steady the ship during the 6 nations. You could say that White needed more game time earlier to be good enough in time for Sam’s retirement but that did not happen. Best of luck to him and I would welcome him back if the need arises at Tigers.

[TigerFeetSteve]

People point to Wigglesworth's arrival as to why White left. I don't think that's the one that caused this. He was no.2 scrum half and dropped to no.4 scrum half, one of rhose who dropped him down the list is an older player who White has said helped his game progress and isn't going to be a long term problem for him getting the no.9 jersey, the other is a young lad on less than him who could be keeping him behind him for years to come.

If I were in White's shoes it's got to be JvP's development that has made me decide to look elsewhere.

[westwinds31]

TBH I expected Simmons to surpass him in attacking mode, injuries allowing, as has JvP.

That is a fair point; he almost became the number 2 by default with Simmons injuries and Harrison retiring.

Don’t feel the same as other reference Lewis; there are better, younger (cheaper) talents behind him in Henderson, Martin and Chessum. It’s not he’s not had a chance, just they offer more and more potential.

The key word there - CHEAPER! Pre-covid Lewis would have been brought through the team and the others would have been another year in the wings. White was pushed from 2nd choice to 4th with the arrival of Wigglesworth - JVP and White could have both got game time with Ben Youngs away on international duty but Wigglesworth took that away from White. He would have looked at his options asked his agent to find him another club and the perfect fit for his private life was London Irish. Both White and Lewis no longer fit in with the plan at Tigers that's why they have been moved on. They've let some serious talent go with the development lads and some of the main squad in my opinion. But Borthwick knows what he's doing and I don't. Let's see what he can do next season and hopefully get us in to the top 4.

I think Top 4 is another couple of seasons away, this is a long term project and we’re at the start of it. Players come and go for different reasons and tough decisions have to be made. You could say that White had the opportunity to push on and didn’t. We don’t know. What we do know is that Wigglesworth has been a big factor is steadying the ship and providing some much needed leadership, and that JVP has developed massively.

[mol2]

The progress of JVP would have put things into perspective for White. JVP, barring injury, illness or a catastrophic loss of form is a star in the making and will be knocking on full England rather than U20s selection before long.

White is a good player but, at this stage in his career, would have seen that he was going to be 3rd choice at best with Youngs coming to the end of his England career and JVP holding down the start/sub bench, relying on England call ups and injury just to make the bench. I don't figure WW into this as he is likely to be transitioning to coaching.

[tigerburnie]

This has got to stop, far too much common sense being put forward here, most unlike a lot of forum chatter.................................
I find myself agreeing with a lot more posts than I have in decades on here.....................................keep it up lads and lasses, lot of good old fashioned knowledgeable Tigers fans talk for a change..........................

[MCC1964]

The progress of JVP would have put things into perspective for White. JVP, barring injury, illness or a catastrophic loss of form is a star in the making and will be knocking on full England rather than U20s selection before long.

White is a good player but, at this stage in his career, would have seen that he was going to be 3rd choice at best with Youngs coming to the end of his England career and JVP holding down the start/sub bench, relying on England call ups and injury just to make the bench. I don't figure WW into this as he is likely to be transitioning to coaching.

I agree with this. I think YBY’s England career is probably done, so for the next year or two it will be YBY and JvP as one and two with WW covering for injury or any international call ups. Beyond them it makes sense to look towards the Dev squad or academy. When you add in the salary cap it just doesn’t make sense to hang on to Ben nor for Ben to hang around on the off chance. And when you factor in who his partner is and where she is based it makes sense for all parties. Who knows, maybe the primary factor was him wanting to move south. Good luck to him, hope it all works out.

[longlivethecrumbie]

This has got to stop, far too much common sense being put forward here, most unlike a lot of forum chatter.................................
I find myself agreeing with a lot more posts than I have in decades on here.....................................keep it up lads and lasses, lot of good old fashioned knowledgeable Tigers fans talk for a change..........................

It probably won't last

[sam16111986]

The progress of JVP would have put things into perspective for White. JVP, barring injury, illness or a catastrophic loss of form is a star in the making and will be knocking on full England rather than U20s selection before long.

White is a good player but, at this stage in his career, would have seen that he was going to be 3rd choice at best with Youngs coming to the end of his England career and JVP holding down the start/sub bench, relying on England call ups and injury just to make the bench. I don't figure WW into this as he is likely to be transitioning to coaching.

I agree with this. I think YBY’s England career is probably done, so for the next year or two it will be YBY and JvP as one and two with WW covering for injury or any international call ups. Beyond them it makes sense to look towards the Dev squad or academy. When you add in the salary cap it just doesn’t make sense to hang on to Ben nor for Ben to hang around on the off chance. And when you factor in who his partner is and where she is based it makes sense for all parties. Who knows, maybe the primary factor was him wanting to move south. Good luck to him, hope it all works out.

I doubt it. England have no experienced scrum halfs with caps. Robson has been poor so far and has 11 caps at 29, behind him is uncapped kids that have trained with the squad. Spencer is hugely out of favour as displayed by the fact he didn't make the training squad cut this summer.

Eddie will look to bed one of Randall or Mitchell in as Youngs successor but I doubt he's going to suddenly cut adrift a player two years older than Robson but with an additional 100 caps and who's been the England go to option for the best part of a decade. I think Ben fancies a crack at the next world cup personally, wants to make amends for the SA game.

Having said that I broadly agree with your post. We have three senior scrum halfs and two in the development squad. One of whom was on loan in the Championship and played regularly last season. That's perfectly good for fourth choice. We can always loan in the case of an emergency.

[mol2]

I'm not sure what it is about Spencer that has seen him out of the selection considerations?
However at 28 he probably isn't going to be on the long term radar for England. It's now or not at all and the latter seems to be the case.

Prediction JVP to be England scrum half by 2024 and an outside bet for the world cup in 2023.

[Traveller]

I'm not sure what it is about Spencer that has seen him out of the selection considerations?
However at 28 he probably isn't going to be on the long term radar for England. It's now or not at all and the latter seems to be the case.

Prediction JVP to be England scrum half by 2024 and an outside bet for the world cup in 2023.

Agreed. Not because I am a Tigers fan. I think he just oozes class. Has that charisma about him and there is a sense of something will happen when he is on the field. Still stuff to learn in terms of game management. But if you think he is a May birthday so just 20. Antoine Dupont is nearly 25.

[ABClub]

I'm not sure what it is about Spencer that has seen him out of the selection considerations?
However at 28 he probably isn't going to be on the long term radar for England. It's now or not at all and the latter seems to be the case.

Prediction JVP to be England scrum half by 2024 and an outside bet for the world cup in 2023.

Spencer's a good player that I rate but at the end of the day he left Sarries at 27 having never been a nailed on starter for his club. How many good international 9s weren't starting for their clubs by their late twenties? That to me suggests there are weaknesses in his game that would probably get found out at international level.

[Scott1]

Imagine JVP and Smith ripping it up at international level!

[sam16111986]

Imagine JVP and Smith ripping it up at international level!

Finn or Marcus?

Raffi Quirke is going to have something to say about JVP being the heir apparent, he's another very talented young 9. Really good to see them both breaking through early as it's a position England are looking a little light in.